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12-08-2014 , 01:29 AM
definitely pass 2C
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12-08-2014 , 06:21 AM
It is kinda hard to defend not passing

"I had only 6 trumps partner"
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12-08-2014 , 08:39 PM
ok, this is a weird one, r/w mp's

J
AQT965
62
AKJ9

partner is first seat

1s-p-2h-p
2s-p-3c-p
3n-4d-?

even at this vulnerability i'd assume that we can X for more than what game would be worth, but idk if we can tell enough at this stage as to whether we should look to slam, and if so where

Spoiler:
X-all pass for -4 and a top
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12-08-2014 , 08:45 PM
Surely pass has to be forcing here, but still not sure if I am trusting a random partner to bid something.
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12-08-2014 , 09:37 PM
Pass definitely forcing, and I think it's sufficiently obvious that I pass and just quietly leave the table if partner doesn't do something
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12-08-2014 , 10:13 PM
double and lead a spade

I would of passed 3nt - I know what to lead and pard already said he has diamonds
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12-09-2014 , 07:58 PM
Pass is forcing, but **** it — we have no great fit (and maybe no decent one), and though slam may be on, we may even get 'em for 1700. (Doubtful, but RHO didn't overcall diamonds until now, so I think he's screwing around and should be punished for it; granted that 800 through 1100 are more likely, but even if slam is on and we bid it, we might choose the wrong one, so it's not clear how many matchpoints we lose even when we're "wrong" to double.)

If partner has Axxxxx Kx Kxx Qx I'll apologize. And I guess opposite a partner I know, I would probably pass. But I'm going to feel pretty foolish if my failure to double gets us to +620ish (or even minus something) when a telephone number was available. (Note that we could even be going down in game: Axxxx x AQxx Qxx with everything offside and nothing breaking, facing a major suit lead lead.)

Last edited by Shrike; 12-09-2014 at 08:25 PM.
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12-10-2014 , 05:36 PM
You are never looking for slam here with this misfit hand. Take the free gift. lol to ever enter this auction when opponents tell you they are not finding a fit.
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12-10-2014 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
lol to ever enter this auction when opponents tell you they are not finding a fit.
... with a hand that wasn't worth bidding at his first or second opportunity.

Hammer time.
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12-10-2014 , 06:46 PM
Playing Kokish style game tries, what do you bid after 1S-2S with

AKTxx
KJxx
A
KJx

If you don't know Kokish, 2NT by us would be an ask, partner would reply with the cheapest suit he would accept a game try with, denying game interest with 3S, and showing a trump help accept with 3N. 3x by us would show shortness in a side suit, and partner would determine how he liked his hand opposite your shortness.

We are obviously bidding game no matter what partner says, but what information do you think is more useful for us to potentially find a slam?

Generally our 1M-2M raises are constructive (7-9) with 3 card support.
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12-10-2014 , 07:21 PM
I think I'd probably bid 3D (shortness) -- we want partner to discount the small diamond honors more than anything. If he goes nuts cuebidding 4C or something over that, we're in business.

Honestly, none of the above would occur to me and I'd just make a 4S game try.

Even if partner has a really good 7-9 with three card support, I don't know that we can want to be in game here. Something like J98 Ax xxxxx Ax I guess would do it, but that's reeeeeally reaching. Any worse than that and I think we're on a hook at best for a slam (and trumps could be ugly too).
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12-10-2014 , 07:25 PM
First day trying out a souped up Precision system at the club today -- 61%. Zero 1H/1S openers, two 2D three-suiter openers. Wat?

Had a very nice auction to 6S which was our bidding highlight.

KQJxx
Jxxx
Kx
Ax

Axx
AQx
AQTxx
xx

Opener South

1C* - 1H*
2S* - 3C (cue)
3D (cue) - 3S (cue)
4H (cue) - 4NT (RKC)
5D (0/3) - 6S

1C = strong 16+
1H = GF, 5+ spades
2S = minimum, spades are trumps

Trumps behaved, diamonds 3-3 (not really necessary), heart K offside.

Most of our good scores were making many overtricks in partscores I think; wrote down a 180, a 170, and a 200 that were all good to very good. Meckwell would have scored about a 94% by bidding all those 23 point games I guess.
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12-10-2014 , 07:35 PM
Re dc-o's hand: If the trumps were slightly better I'd try 2NT. If the answer were anything but 3C, there would probably be no slam. If the answer is 3C, counter-try with 3H; if partner accepts, then you can keycard, while if he declines, again there is probably no slam.

The problem: We pretty much need partner to hold ace-queen-queen in the roundeds, and either the trump queen or five of them, for slam to be considerably better than 50%, and that's impossible. The other hand that works is doubleton ace of hearts and the two rounded queens, but that's a pretty narrow target... but anyway, I can find it when it's there, if I choose to take the risk. I might at IMPs; I wouldn't at matchpoints.

I like kokish gt, btw.

Edit to add: DW favors a shortness bid. I don't like that so much because pard will accept with e.g., QJxx xxx xxx Axx and it will be difficult for me to distinguish between that and some of the hands that work (i.e., those that have the heart queen, which pard will never control bid. Because it's the third round of each round suit that interests me, I ask about that... which I can do using the kokish structure.

Last edited by Shrike; 12-10-2014 at 07:45 PM.
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12-10-2014 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
Playing Kokish style game tries, what do you bid after 1S-2S with

AKTxx
KJxx
A
KJx

If you don't know Kokish, 2NT by us would be an ask, partner would reply with the cheapest suit he would accept a game try with, denying game interest with 3S, and showing a trump help accept with 3N. 3x by us would show shortness in a side suit, and partner would determine how he liked his hand opposite your shortness.

We are obviously bidding game no matter what partner says, but what information do you think is more useful for us to potentially find a slam?

Generally our 1M-2M raises are constructive (7-9) with 3 card support.
would 3n be choice of game?

i don't really like showing shortness with the ace stiff (and otherwise minimal slam try values), so i guess 2n would be the best choice if you are looking for a swing (otherwise i bid directly to game).. then you can make another try over 3c or 3h only
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12-10-2014 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike
Re dc-o's hand: If the trumps were slightly better I'd try 2NT. If the answer were anything but 3C, there would probably be no slam. If the answer is 3C, counter-try with 3H; if partner accepts, then you can keycard, while if he declines, again there is probably no slam.

The problem: We pretty much need partner to hold ace-queen-queen in the roundeds, and either the trump queen or five of them, for slam to be considerably better than 50%, and that's impossible. The other hand that works is doubleton ace of hearts and the two rounded queens, but that's a pretty narrow target... but anyway, I can find it when it's there, if I choose to take the risk. I might at IMPs; I wouldn't at matchpoints.

I like kokish gt, btw.

Edit to add: DW favors a shortness bid. I don't like that so much because pard will accept with e.g., QJxx xxx xxx Axx and it will be difficult for me to distinguish between that and some of the hands that work (i.e., those that have the heart queen, which pard will never control bid. Because it's the third round of each round suit that interests me, I ask about that... which I can do using the kokish structure.
Forgot to mention that it was vulnerable imps....only reason to try and sniff slam.

Partner can't hold a constructive raise with 4+ trumps as he would have shown that with a 3D call over 1S. His simple raise guaranteed exactly 3 trumps and 7-9 (or a flat 10).

I chose the 2NT route as it would tell me basically everything I wanted to know... the decision was really easy when partner bid 3S denying anything really useful. Signed off in game, and made 5 opposite

Qxx
Qx
JTxxx
Qxx

Quote:
would 3n be choice of game?
Where?

After 1S-2S, 3N is balanced COG.

After 1S-2S;2N-3N shows good trumps (HHx or better). Opener can leave it in if he desires.
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12-11-2014 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
Playing Kokish style game tries, what do you bid after 1S-2S with

AKTxx
KJxx
A
KJx

If you want to make a slamtry, splinter 4D and if partner bids 4S you pass and if he cuebids 4H, you bid 4S to show a minimum slamtry. He will not continue unless he has a good hand that fits well (he will know that KQJd are toiletpaper)
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12-11-2014 , 08:09 PM
10x
KQx
J10x
AQ109x

favourable for MP's - pard deals and opens a 9-14 1nt and the auction proceeds

1nt 2D X 2H
X P ?

your double is values and pard's double is takeout (still 9-14) - 2D was a single suiter major

don't play for matchpoints often - doesn't particularly suit a barrage style where the downside is crappy part scores - I kind of like MP's although like this hand it always feels like I have 17 extra things to think about - mostly this hand I was thinking about my mate Reynolds - an excellent bridge player who has evolved the ''Reynolds Rules'' - about 12 lessons he has learnt for a happier life - some are obvious such as Reynolds Rule number 7 - "never travel to a place that ends in -stan''

Reynolds Rule number 2 - "never double at the 2 level unless you are personally looking at 4+ trumps" - probably the Reynolds Rules only apply to imps but I haven't clarified that with him
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12-11-2014 , 09:17 PM
well I ain't passing; if partner has the three tricks we need to beat this then we probably have game and he needs four tricks for +500

seems like the options are 2NT, 3C, and 3NT hoping for a max from partner

I'll guess 2NT, but when you open a 9-14 1NT that's all it is, a guess
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12-11-2014 , 09:51 PM
No offense, but what kind of range is 9-14? Tighten that sucker up a bit...

I'm between pass and 3C. I'm tending a bit towards pass. Opponents are in an 8 card fit with less than half the deck. I have at least 1 trump trick, maybe two. Passing and leading spade T looks ok to me...
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12-11-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
Partner can't hold a constructive raise with 4+ trumps as he would have shown that with a 3D call over 1S. His simple raise guaranteed exactly 3 trumps and 7-9 (or a flat 10).
If you're playing this way, then the only hands that make slam good (even vul at IMPs) are
  • Qxx AQx(x) xxx(x) Qxx(x) (or reverse the roundeds with he extra card in hearts); or
  • Qxx Ax xxxx(x) Qxx(x) (or the same, plus the spade J — or reverse the majors and hope for the heart ten or a 3–3 break).
That's a narrow target.

It's still fine to look for, playing kokish, because as you said, you can find out what you need to know with the tools, but notice that you need (1) his first answer to be yes, in clubs; (2) his response to the counter-try in hearts to be yes; and (3) his response to keycard to be one with. And you will still go down some of the time when you bid it, when he holds Qxx of hearts (and the rest of the stuff you asked for) and nothing particularly friendly happens. (Not that that chance should dissuade you if you get the responses you need, I'm just pointing out that even if the parlay comes through and he has the "perfect" hand, it might still not be quite so perfect.
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12-11-2014 , 10:57 PM
On stripsqueez's hand, I'd like to know whether 2H was pass or correct even with the intervening double, or showed a suit. If the former, then 2NT seems right; if the latter, then 3C.
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12-11-2014 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
No offense, but what kind of range is 9-14? Tighten that sucker up a bit...

I'm between pass and 3C. I'm tending a bit towards pass. Opponents are in an 8 card fit with less than half the deck. I have at least 1 trump trick, maybe two. Passing and leading spade T looks ok to me...
9-14 is what I have played for a long time - it is more detailed than that but still accurately described as 9-14 at any vulnerability - I love it and it has a good history against the best

you do a lot of guessing when you play a 9-14 1nt opening but certainly the amount of "extra" guessing you do is no more than you force your opponents to do

if you lead the 10 of spades the director gets called - pard is going to lead a trump pretty much always if you pass
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12-12-2014 , 12:02 AM
oops, yeah... it was lefty who bid 2H.

Quote:
9-14 is what I have played for a long time - it is more detailed than that but still accurately described as 9-14 at any vulnerability
I'd be interested in seeing the details
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12-12-2014 , 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike
On stripsqueez's hand, I'd like to know whether 2H was pass or correct even with the intervening double, or showed a suit. If the former, then 2NT seems right; if the latter, then 3C.
sorry - 2H was pass or correct - I agree if it showed hearts I would probably like to just play 3 clubs now

system says simple lebensohl so 3C is game forcing and 2nt is effectively wanting to play in 3 of a minor

invitational sequences can happen in this system but they are largely frowned upon - this is definately a spot where an invitational sequence is a waste in my view
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12-12-2014 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
I'd be interested in seeing the details
the system is what I call "barrage acol" - I like to think the whole system fits into a distinctive and unusual style - different bits compliment each other so just describing the 1nt stuff is a bit of a fish out of water

in 1st and 2nd 1nt is 9-14 - if vulnerable then with 9 and average 10's opener will have a 5+ suit (AKA "a haven") - the 14's are liberally upgraded particularly at favourable when a majority of 14's are sold as a strong 1nt

in 3rd the range becomes 9-15 and in 4th you just do what's right so opening with less than 11 isn't really going to happen

running sequences are important to sustain this sort of action - after an immediate double all bids are natural to play except pass which asks opener to bid a 5+ suit or redouble which is either left in or a suit is now the lower of 2 - we XX to play in this spot with 7+ balanced - scary but effective - after a 4th seat X opener automatically XX's to play - helps if I also explain that when I open 1nt and the auction proceeds pass pass I alert and explain that pard has denied 0-6 balanced - with those hands he bids - my record is 1ntXX to play with a combined 15 when responder upgraded his 6 count and passed initially and cheekily passed the XX - fortunately they ran in the pass out
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