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12-20-2014 , 10:36 PM
Lol@not opening a hand because you might run into problems. Jfc
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12-21-2014 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrrrr
Lol@not opening a hand because you might run into problems. Jfc


'Might' is possibly an understatement - it is quite likely you will have to choose between pass or overbidding in a subsequent round if you open 1D.

I prefer to cap my range here and after that be as loud as possible.
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12-23-2014 , 01:10 AM
When to bash grand - had 3 of these in about 10 days for a 0/3 record

Kxx
AJ9xx
xxx
AK

Pard deals at unfavourable and it goes

1S P 2H 2nt
3H 4D 4H 5D
5H P 6H 7D
P P ?

This one was around hand 10 with a BBO random who seemed to deserve the title "expert"
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12-23-2014 , 01:39 AM
You missed an opportunity: you can look for the grand and deal with this not-unlikely eventuality by bidding 6C at your third call.

As played, [thinking out loud here...]

it seems moderately likely that pard is void in diamonds, but not certain. 800 (the likely result of doubling) won't pay for the grand, as you'll lose to the other table even if they're in the small slam; I'd say you need only about a forty percent chance (I'm assuming IMPs; it would be helpful for you to include form of scoring in these things) for bidding on to be good.

Partner's pass was forcing. Would he do that with AQJxx KQx x xxxx? I think he wouldn't; that's a doubling hand. As you have the top clubs, his pass suggests a void. On the other hand, that leaves a hell of a lot of other cards — are you assuming he's 5=4=0=4? You almost have to for bidding on to be good.

Do you play that 3C at partner's second call would have been a strong heart raise? (You should.) If so, his sequence, once you include the 5H bid, shows minimal high cards but nice shape — again suggesting bidding on. I think. But then, with the assumed void in diamonds he has an easy 4D bid at his second call, which he did not make.

Meh. Double, I think. What swings it for me is that if hard were void in diamonds he should have bid differently, and if he has the ace of diamonds he probably should have bid differently in a different way.
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12-23-2014 , 08:35 AM
Clear double in my opinion.

Partner had a chance to show shortness over 2NT with a 4D call and instead, bid the weakest possible call with 3M.

We also should have bid 5C at our 2nd call to show a club control. Partner even with a diamond control can't know what to do after 5D, so just punts with 5H. With both of us just repeating hearts, we never had a chance to show any meaningful information.
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12-23-2014 , 09:27 AM
yeah the auction isn't pretty - I think I spent about 15 seconds away from internet gaming before choosing 4 hearts - I think its pretty soft - if I was playing with bruce 3 hearts would be game forcing and 4 diamonds a splinter over 2nt
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12-23-2014 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripsqueez
if I was playing with bruce 3 hearts would be game forcing
You are already in a 2/1 auction, so you've game forced as it is...

In forcing auctions with interference, I play a return to our suit(s) is the weakest possible call, pass is stronger with no clear direction (usually balanced) and doubles are penalty oriented. Cuebids usually show 1st/2nd round control, and a jump cue is a splinter.

In this auction, I'd have played 3C/3D over 2NT as showing a slam worthy hand with H/S respectively.
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12-23-2014 , 12:13 PM
3H is not the weakest possible call - 4H is.
Still with partner not splintering, you are never bidding 7 here.

4H is an underbid imo, in a lolbbo game I think I'd do more
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12-23-2014 , 12:27 PM
I don't see where we agreed to play 2/1 and should assume 2H was GF, but maybe I missed something
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12-23-2014 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
I don't see where we agreed to play 2/1 and should assume 2H was GF, but maybe I missed something
Even if you do not play 2-over-1 GF, playing 3H as NF in this spot seems bad. That forces you to make room consuming bids with too wide of a range.

I think it is MUCH better to play 3H as forcing and give yourself room to investigate whether slam is a possibility. If you have a minimum hand, you can just pass and compete 3H over 3m later.

Note that I would never pass with 4H, with a minimum hand and 4card support, I'd just bid 4H.
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12-23-2014 , 02:54 PM
So with a 5314 minimum I have to pass and wait for them to bid and then back into hearts?

That can't be right, not least because it might not come back to you at 3D.
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12-23-2014 , 03:27 PM
Assuming we have something like unusual over unusual available, we have three ways to bid hearts: 3H, 4H, and 3C. We should probably also play that 4C and 4D are splinters, ostensibly in support of hearts though I guess returning to spades may happen occasionally. We can also double with no fit and strength, and pass with nothing to say (plus three ways to bid spades if we want that).

I think the generally sensible approach would be (looking only at the heart bids):
  • 3C — strong heart raise, generally no splinter;
  • 3H — competitive; not forcing even if we're playing 2/1 without competition, though the auction will rarely stop here;
  • 4m — splinters; and
  • 4H — shapely heart raise (thus a minimum, because no splinter nor strength-showing 3C).
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12-23-2014 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
So with a 5314 minimum I have to pass and wait for them to bid and then back into hearts?

That can't be right, not least because it might not come back to you at 3D.
Actually, I'm quite wrong because I can bid two opponents suit with a GF hand, so 3H can be NF.
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12-23-2014 , 05:37 PM
I would assume if I sat down with a good player absent discussion:

3C - good heart raise
3D - strong 3S rebid?
3H - competitive
3S - competitive, strong spades?
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12-24-2014 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
I would assume if I sat down with a good player absent discussion:

3C - good heart raise
3D - strong 3S rebid?
3H - competitive
3S - competitive, strong spades?
With the 2/1 in mind:

3C - slam worthy heart raise
3D - slam worthy spades, 6+
3H - 53(xx) minimum, not wanting to penalize
3S - 6(xxx) minimum, 2 or less hearts, not wanting to penalize
X - 5(xxx) no fit, penalty of one of the minors
P- balanced, no clear direction
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12-24-2014 , 01:31 PM
I think we're all saying the same thing.

Anyway, with everyone agreeing so I realize I wasn't nuts, I'm now sure: If your partner is good, his 3H bid denies a holding that will allow the grand to make. Your opps have found a good spot (though 6H may have been going down, for example on heart underlead, spade ruff);take what you can get.
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12-24-2014 , 02:19 PM
My standard approach in a non-discussed auction where opponents have bid two suits: you bid the suit where you have (most) values.

Either you have a fit or you don't - partner will initially assume you have not and can decide whether 3NT is good or a 5-2 fit might be better
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12-24-2014 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
My standard approach in a non-discussed auction where opponents have bid two suits: you bid the suit where you have (most) values.

Either you have a fit or you don't - partner will initially assume you have not and can decide whether 3NT is good or a 5-2 fit might be better
This may or may not be a sensible approach (I haven't thought it through so idk), but I'll tell you that in the US, with an intermediate-or-better partner, it would be imprudent because it's likely he'll assume the treatment discussed by several players above, when someone has shown a known two-suiter. (Doesn't apply if two suits have been bid naturally.)

If it were undiscussed and I were playing on an unfamiliar continent, I'd probably avoid the bids entirely but if pressed I might choose your method.
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12-25-2014 , 12:49 AM
KQ754
KJ54
98
K8

2N-3C
3D-3H! (smolen)
3S-4C
4D-4N* (1430)
5C-5N* (spec. king ask)
6S- ?

2N is 20-21
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12-25-2014 , 01:01 AM
wait for RHO to lead and put the dummy down? I mean, 7 might be okay here, but I have no confidence in it.

I'm not thrilled with my asking for keycards with this hand, by the way. Partner would probably learn a lot more from doing so.
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12-25-2014 , 01:48 AM
Whether the grand is good depends more on hearts than anything else. Having established spades, you can't ask in hearts... so DW is right. Bid 4H at your fourth call. That lets pard upvalue his AQx(x). He's also the one who knows whether he has three spades or four. With Axxx AQx Ax AQxx he will work out that the grand is good, with AJx Axxx AQJ AJx he'll know it's not.

As bid: There are 8 HCP unaccounted for, and pard has 4 or 5 (unless he's the sort who routinely upgrades prime 19s). If they don't include the heart queen, then he needs to hold a doubleton heart for you to be at all happy, and even then you may be on a diamond hook or a squeeze. If he holds the heart queen you have nine twelve tricks for sure, but now you need the club queen for a sure thirteenth. It looks to me like this grand will make more than 50% of the time, but that includes some layouts that are on winning hooks. At matchpoints it is far from necessary to bid the grand even when it makes (in part because you may wind up in the wrong strain anyway); you will get an above-average MP score even if it makes, as long as you've chosen the right strain, and so you need better MP odds to bid on. At IMPs, you need much better odds than this.

Last edited by Shrike; 12-25-2014 at 01:56 AM.
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12-25-2014 , 02:28 AM
he cant have 4H or 4S

id always just pass 6S
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12-25-2014 , 06:56 AM
This is an interesting hand and the 4NT bid is a mistake.

Any time you are in a slam auction you must ask yourself: what can I tell partner and what do I want to know from partner. With that information you decide how to time the bidding (cuebids) and who is best placed to ask for aces.

Look at your hand again:
KQ754
KJ54
98
K8

Is this a telling or an asking hand?

What is it you want to tell: You have KQs and two kings.
What is it you want to know: Aces in the first place, but after that it is not specifically the Kd that interests you, the Qh and Qc and even Jc can be equally or much more useful and unless your relays are very sophisticated and start at low bidding level, this is information you are never going to hear.

So this is a telling hand and the correct bid after 4D is not 4NT, but 4H.

Give partner this hand:

AJx
AQx
Axx
AQxx

He will be mighty pleased to hear you have Kh, as he knows his Qh is very valuable. He can proceed to 4NT, hear Ks, ask Qs, you have it and if he asks kings you can show Kc and he can count 12 tricks with excellent chances of a 13th in clubs or hearts (either you have a jack or a suit splits favorably or a club/heart squeeze or maybe even a double squeeze with diamonds as central suit).
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12-25-2014 , 09:24 AM
Yeah I mean the fact that we're asking "what now" means we probably shouldn't have assumed captaincy...
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12-26-2014 , 01:32 AM
Feliz Navidad!
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