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11-20-2009 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
I didn't think it'd work but it was worth a shot.

I think he's far MORE likely to lead from 4 or 5 to the nothing than to lead from the queen (under the "don't give anything away against 6NT" principle). Which is not to say that I consider either especially likely, but I figure it probably adds a good 5% to our chances. He's never (for most values of never) leading away from the QH here, assuming partner has bid them.
fwiw I'm not unlikely to lead from that holding (Qxx, say) if hearts are to my left, depending on how the auction went.
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11-20-2009 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyman
fwiw I'm not unlikely to lead from that holding (Qxx, say) if hearts are to my left, depending on how the auction went.
I'd hate it a lot. You give away a two-way guess a LOT.
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11-20-2009 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Mirpuri
FCBLComish,

I noticed no smileys and no alerting of opponents.
You will never notice an alert from your partner. The alert goes only to the opps.

As soon as I alerted, both opps, almost simultaneously typed a into the chat box.

When playing with a partner who you have not played extensively with, there are going to be bids like this that are harder to determine the meaning of. I play 17-26 boards a night with a regular partner and we still have some bids where one of us misunderstands what a bid means.

2 Examples:

1) 1 - 2NT

Are we playing Jacoby 2N? The response is very different if we are or if we are not. We never discussed it. I guessed we were not. I was right, but it could have been really bad if we were.

2) This sequence:

1NT- 2
2 - 3
3 - 4
?

I have 16 points, 4 and AK tight

What is my bid here?

Spoiler:
I considered briefly the possibility that the first 2 bid was a misclick, but decided it was not. The sequence seemed to show 6-5 distribution. I passed 4 and it turns out he was 5-5.

He said that his first bid showed 5. His 2nd bid showed 4 and his 3rd bid showed the 5th

I said that we had already established a spade fit, or I would not have bid 3. I would have chosen 3NT instead.
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11-20-2009 , 06:38 PM
More to the point on hand #2, with 5 spades and 4 hearts, Stayman would be the standard bid, after which (following a 2D response) he'd bid 2S (invitational) or 3S (game forcing) to show 5-4 in the majors.

(There are of course fancy things to introduce here like Smolen, but this is bog-standard '50s Goren bidding that really hasn't changed and I'd expect any competent partner to get.)

I'd stare blankly at a partner that produced that sequence and probably just pass and discuss it later, because it makes no sense no matter what he has (outside of some goofy 6-6 in the majors hand).
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11-20-2009 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
If you want to see how hard declarer play can get, download Bridge Base Online, go to the other bridge activities part, and do Bridge Master 2000. After a few years of playing I can handle all the level 3's and about half of the level 4's. Level 5's still trick me up pretty good.
bridge master 2000 costs money?
can you post/pm me/link me to a sample level 4/5 hand?
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11-20-2009 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
More to the point on hand #2, with 5 spades and 4 hearts, Stayman would be the standard bid, after which (following a 2D response) he'd bid 2S (invitational) or 3S (game forcing) to show 5-4 in the majors.

(There are of course fancy things to introduce here like Smolen, but this is bog-standard '50s Goren bidding that really hasn't changed and I'd expect any competent partner to get.)

I'd stare blankly at a partner that produced that sequence and probably just pass and discuss it later, because it makes no sense no matter what he has (outside of some goofy 6-6 in the majors hand).
That is EXACTLY what I did. Except he had no idea I was staring blankly since he was half a world away (Asia).
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11-20-2009 , 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholasp27
bridge master 2000 costs money?
can you post/pm me/link me to a sample level 4/5 hand?
I believe it is free, as is most of BBO.

www.bridgebaseonline.com
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11-20-2009 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholasp27
bridge master 2000 costs money?
can you post/pm me/link me to a sample level 4/5 hand?
It does cost money. But the Bridge Base Online client has 30 sample hands.

But a sample level 4 hand from BBO...

J6
3
AK87654
987

AKQ987
AK2
32
K5

Lead is Q, contract is 6 with no bidding from opps. Tell me your plan, and plan for the worst...

Level 5 hand...

98
65
AQ5432
Q54

AKQ42
AK432

A32

Lead is T, contract is once again 6 with no bidding from opps. Once again, plan very very carefully...

I was on my way to getting the first hand if I spent more time on it, but I was never going to get the second hand.
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11-20-2009 , 07:57 PM
Nah you have to pay for Bridge Master.

You could check out the Bridge Base Deals of the Week. Some aren't that tough, but there's some really nasty problems on some deals.

Here's one I chose at random where the author of the Deal of the Week, in which the Bridge Base CEO and expert player Fred Gitelman failed to spot the solution when the problem was posed to him.
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11-20-2009 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
Lead is Q, contract is 6 with no bidding from opps. Tell me your plan, and plan for the worst...
I have formulated a plan for the worst-case scenario....

Spoiler:
East wins the ace and returns the jack of clubs, West ruffing. I concede down one and knock off early for a beer
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11-20-2009 , 08:04 PM
You have to pay for the full 150 deals Bridge Master. But there is 36 sample deals that come with BBO.
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11-20-2009 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
I have formulated a plan for the worst-case scenario....

Spoiler:
East wins the ace and returns the jack of clubs, West ruffing. I concede down one and knock off early for a beer


Ok that would be the worst case scenario. In the actual program east does win the ace and returns a club that doesnt get ruffed. Now go from there
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11-20-2009 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
But a sample level 4 hand from BBO...

J6
3
AK87654
987

AKQ987
AK2
32
K5
K, low spade to J. If LHO out, AK If not split, , use ruff to get back.

And if chris wants his beer, hold on to the 7 for as long as possible.
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11-20-2009 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuroth
K, low spade to J. If LHO out, AK If not split, , use ruff to get back.

And if chris wants his beer, hold on to the 7 for as long as possible.
King of diamonds gets ruffed. There is a safer higher percentage line.
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11-20-2009 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
It does cost money. But the Bridge Base Online client has 30 sample hands.

But a sample level 4 hand from BBO...

J6
3
AK87654
987

AKQ987
AK2
32
K5

Lead is Q, contract is 6 with no bidding from opps. Tell me your plan, and plan for the worst...
(After QC to the ace and a club back...)

If spades are 5-0, I think I give up. I don't have any way to set up enough entries for a trump coup, and I'm certainly not taking a first round finesse.

On that assumption, my only loser is a heart but the catch is getting back to hand after AH, H ruff. A third club could get overruffed.

The alternative is to just run off six spades, discarding diamonds from dummy. If diamonds are 2-2 this works splendidly, as I only need one discard. If they aren't, perhaps there will only be one club guard (LHO with QJT clubs), which should let us reduce to:

--
3
8
9


--
AK2
--
--

and if one opponent holds the club guard, and the other the diamond guard, then nobody's left to guard that wonderful heart deuce.

I think this fails if a club guard and the long diamond are in the same hand, which seems like it could be very possible.


Frankly, I'd never even think about a squeeze or a trump coup (if that's on) at the table and just play AH, heart ruff, JS, club ruff, trumps.
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11-20-2009 , 10:47 PM
close

Spoiler:
After running off 6 spades. Cash the ace and king of hearts. Then if LHO has the diamond length, and the club guard he is squeezed on the king of hearts. Yeah I would never come up with this at the table.


and yet the level 5 one was extra fiendish...

Seriously, major major props if you can figure out the other hand.

Last edited by chuckleslovakian; 11-20-2009 at 10:56 PM.
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11-20-2009 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian

Level 5 hand...

98
65
AQ5432
Q54

AKQ42
AK432

A32

Lead is T, contract is once again 6 with no bidding from opps. Once again, plan very very carefully...

I was on my way to getting the first hand if I spent more time on it, but I was never going to get the second hand.
I'm going to take my laughably bad attempt at this one.

It seems like we need an obscene amount of good breaks here.

Win trick one, play ace-king-ruff in hearts. Club to hand, draw trump, which break 3-3 ldo, and lead a club up. With luck someone will have the club king doubleton or it'll be onside, and I can pitch my club loser on the diamond ace after all.

Down three?
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11-20-2009 , 11:01 PM
Or am I supposed to play for a stiff club king (LOL)?
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11-20-2009 , 11:05 PM
You get your 3-3 heart split.

However, West's lead of the T strongly suggests East has a trump trick...
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11-20-2009 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
You get your 3-3 heart split.

However, West's lead of the T strongly suggests East has a trump trick...
Well bully for him.

He can have it on the fourth round of trumps. If he's got the club king, it's a very unhappy present for him. Into the diamond AQ (discard two clubs), or away from the CK (one club away on the DA).
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11-20-2009 , 11:11 PM
Quote:

Frankly, I'd never even think about a squeeze or a trump coup (if that's on) at the table and just play AH, heart ruff, JS, club ruff, trumps.
Of course, this is your main line. LHO probably "never" would lead from Qx of clubs, and even if they did, maybe the ST will be on your right.

So, you have a great line available, close to 100 %. What are the pitfalls? As you mentioned 5-0 spades is the issue. If LHO has 5 spades to the ten you are dead (unless you take a first round finesse which obv you would never do). What if RHO has 5 spades to the ten? You will be able to finesse him out of it on the SECOND round, after LHO has shown out, but you need that little trump in dummy to do it.

All this means is that you cash the SJ before doing anything. Most of the time, they both follow, and you ruff a heart etc (your main line). Sometimes RHO shows out and you are just down. But, sometimes LHO will show out. Now you can't ruff your heart because you have to hook the spade.

This means your play usually gains nothing, but in the case of RHO having 5 spades you are no longer down perforce (whereas you would be if you had ruffed a heart immediately). The SJ is just a discovery play.

Once you get the bad news, you have to play on. If diamonds are 2-2 you are still cold obviously. What about if they don't split? You need to play for a squeeze in that case.

What is the best squeeze to play for? The one you gave is a double squeeze and is a strong line. For this line to work, you need RHO to guard diamonds, and LHO to guard clubs. The problem with this is you have to take into account LHO having a spade void! When he has a spade void, he is extremely extremely unlikely to also have a stiff diamond. That would give him 12 round cards. It's possible, but far more likely is LHO being the one with 3 diamonds.

If LHO has 3 diamonds you have a simple squeeze, running your major suit winners and squeezing him. That is the percentage play given that LHO has 0 spades and RHO has 5.

So the key points are

1) Play the SJ to see if RHO has 5 spades.
2) Once that happens, figure out what squeezes are possible, and choose the best one.
Bridge Quote
11-20-2009 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
Well bully for him.

He can have it on the fourth round of trumps. If he's got the club king, it's a very unhappy present for him. Into the diamond AQ (discard two clubs), or away from the CK (one club away on the DA).
Hold on what is your entire line again then? Because earlier you were playing a club to your hand, and now the king of clubs is good.
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11-20-2009 , 11:13 PM
Hmm, never mind.

EDIT: I'm on there playing it now. I'll get it eventually!

EDIT: Okay, never mind. Never in a million years. On the right general track though.

Last edited by DWetzel; 11-20-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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11-20-2009 , 11:20 PM
PS: Anyone on BBO right now that wants to play? capn1100 looking for some fun.
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11-20-2009 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian

Level 5 hand...

98
65
AQ5432
Q54

AKQ42
AK432

A32

Lead is T, contract is once again 6 with no bidding from opps. Once again, plan very very carefully...
LOLLLLL where did you get this hand, it just blew my mind? I think I have solved it...

Spoiler:
OK so you start by winning the spade and trying to ruff a heart to dummy. You need 3-3 hearts here. Assuming they are 3-3, now what?

Cashing the DA is short sighted. We will end up needing 3-3 spades if we do that. Better is to try and make on 4-2 spades by endplaying RHO. It's possible spades are 3-3 and they have falsecarded the lead with JTx or whatever, but then we're ok with the CK on still. It will be embarassing to go down on 3-3 spades and the CK off though because we never took our DA, but good for them if they falsecarded the lead. Anyways for the endplay we strand the diamond for now and just ruff a diamond, keeping the tenace in dummy. REMEMBER TO RUFF WITH THE FOUR (more on this later). Now cash the spades. If 3-3 you will need the CK on. Assuming RHO has 4, cash a heart. RHO will not ruff since he will be endplayed if he does. DO NOT CASH ANOTHER HEART, dummy will be squeezed!

Instead exit with your trump. Now dummy has AQ of diamonds and Qx of clubs, you have Axx of clubs and a good heart, and RHO has to play a diamond into dummy giving you 2 pitches, or a club giving you a club and an entry to the DA.

So what was this about the S4? Well, if you had ruffed with the deuce, RHO can make the spectacular play of UNBLOCKING HIS TRUMPS! Then when you try to "endplay" him, he will put the 3 under your 4! He sacrifices a trump trick, but you lose 2 clubs now.


Gonna feel stupid if I missed something lol
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