Certainly

I am going to write this up once more because people don't seem to be getting it. Please read this post, then go read my other posts to verify if you don't believe I'm telling the truth, this one will be short and concise.

Accusations:

1. "The trap"

John claims to have laid a trap by contradicting himself, I call him out and he says I fell for the trap, but in the post he says I fell for the trap, he also makes a claim that cannot be true. I point this out and he refuses to respond, explaining later that this second contradiction was also a trap.

I call bull****, this is way too elaborate, and feels like John revising history for his own benefit. Who on earth creates a layered trap like that? Do you honestly believe that his second layer where John messes up the timings of events can possibly be planned?

2. "The result"

John's elaborate "traps" are not easily spotted, only someone reading the thread in detail would notice them. John called out two other people on his initial contradiction, neither of them noticed the problem. Assuming John is genuine and the traps were real all along, I should be his strongest townread by far for having the presence of mind to notice these subtle things. Instead he ends up waffling back and forth on my alignment, ending up in a 51/49 no conclusion

I don't believe there is a tangible goal here, I think the baiting is something John invented to explain himself when he couldn't do so otherwise.

3. "The vote"

Even as John laid out his elaborate plans, he ended up throwing a vote on Aedan based on a post from the beginning of the thread. Prior to this though, John had bashed townies for thinking there was something to be read from the first pages of the game, which implies he had already read those pages. So why not vote the thing, or at least point it out on his first read-through?

I think John contradicts his earlier position by voting on something that by his own definition shouldn't be relevant to the discussion.

4. "The evolution"

John started out by calling me scum, when I pointed out I couldn't be scum based on his reasoning he started calling me bad and refused to talk to me. Later on he started talking to me and dropped all his aggression on me.

I am convinced John thought he could shut me up by calling me bad and ridiculing me. I think he got unlucky with his target, seeing as the whole thread now knows I'm a tunneling machine who doesn't take no for an answer.

It's a bit fun, no one I normally play with is stupid enough to call me out with no reasons behind it because they know what's coming.

Addressing town:

I really want this lynch. Go read my bio, I'm not very good at mafia beyond day 1. This is where I shine, and then fade away. Please let me kill this guy.

If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I am very convinced this is the correct lynch. Everyone in the thread thinks I'm town (aside from John of course, who has more incentive to think I'm town based on his own story than anyone else). So take this leap of faith with me.

This is good, this is just, let's kill the man.

Look, that sounds good, but you need to link to the actual posts. Not just wave your hands and say he did it. That's how you misrepresent people.

God I have already done that, why do you so furiously refuse to read the thread?

I've been reading the thread but it's a nightmare to find anything posted in the past. I've just isolated McClane's posts. They're difficult to parse because he's obviously posting with a style that's abrasive and cocky. I don't want to 'hedge my bets' but to give you my official opinion: I wouldn't hate a vote on him but I don't prefer it over a number of other votes.

I think monstrman is a good vote for the reasons discussed by a few of us over the last few pages. To reiterate, both his case and the emotion with which he makes the vote read as forced. His frustration does not feel genuine.

Bed time for me. Would appreciate if someone else who supports this case could continue to push it forward for discussion.

Here is my big case, this is written before he claims it was a trap all along:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...l#post42638812

Here is the same thing (after he claims it was a bait) summed up in a nice image, if text is too hard:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...=#post42640295

Here is where he claims his entire story is an elaborate trap:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...l#post42641682

And here is why his vote doesn't make sense given his own view of the early game

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...=#post42641971

There mills, I went back and gathered up the entire thing for you.

I'm trying to read this quickly but your first link is the post you made 15 minutes ago.

You're cherry picking two posts and condensing my entire gameplay into them. Not entirely sure why you're so obsessed with those in particular.

I get a big town lean on Glotnot's wall of text post.

Still catching up but at work right now.

I have real trouble btw following the logic of people here btw. How on earth do you scumhunt on day 1 when everyone can just say "lolz it was bait" if they **** up.

Are people going to start ignoring herbie if he claims his emo outburst is a bait? or his vote on merk?

God this forum is a piece of ****. Nope, I just have to wait an extra minute for it to mysteriously load.

I get why you're building that case, and being so focussed on one person so loudly so early is giving me plenty of villager vibes, but I've seen too many villagers use the same kind of strategy as McClane in other games. It's not one I endorse, but yes, people do do what you describe without being scum.

Did he even vote you?

Sorry here is the case

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...l#post42638812

Explain in which way I 'condensed your entire gameplay into these two posts'.

No wait, it totally is not.

Palmar, I've changed my mind after reading your case. I think he's town although I think he comes across as an idiot. An opinion that is sure to upset you both.

No he didn't, what has that got to do with anything?

And I've seen townies do "baits" before, one of them is the dumb **** where people claim vanilla townie at the start, another is when create an early tunnel.

The point is this is the most elaborate scheme I've ever seen, the layered trap claim is beyond ridiculous.

I can't find your original case; the links do nothing for me. I've read his posts, your other links, and your latest iteration of the case higher on this page.

I stand by my thoughts above.

Now I really am going to sleep.

Right now McClane is useful. He gave us a read on you. Now that he has claimed it was an act, it's up to him to reinvent himself in a new useful role where the village still wants him around. I'm happy to give him that chance, because for now we can afford it.

Morning poop check-in...

Reminder today is my birthday. My play will be sporadic, but since we have a deadline I'll try and do what I can without insulting my wife by paying more attention to this than I am to whatever birthday plans she's made for me.

That's a lot of backpedalling.

I don't buy it. For 2 reaons, first because popping into the thread and claiming somone is off their meta is a way of undermining them with intent, it's not an insult or a jab - and second because the meta just isn't true.

I play like a jerk on Jetnation - hence the nickname "Ape". I talk down to people (lecutring) and insult them (intimidation), all in the spirit of mafia arrogance, which is just something we all strive towards on Jetnation.

I dial that WAY way back on Dragonmount (the ONLY place Despo and I have played together). I don't insult people nearly as much, it's a site full of younger kids who don't all appreciate it. I do still lecture about what I view to be superior strategy.

So, again - I don't want to make this about "who is telling the truth about McClane's meta" but he is wrong, or lying. I actually think it's kind bush league that he even used that against me.

My vote stays.

Your questioning was rather weak. LOL

This is good. The clash between you two came from out of nowhere, but good to see people getting active!

You people are all obsessed with votes and timing of votes and ****, I think the only thing that matters is where your vote is at by the end of the day.

Someone should follow up with analstanley about his comment that I 'condensed the entirety of his posting into two posts' by asking how people read the tone of two particular posts in isolation.

OK BYE.

If he wasn't voting you, it's all the more likely that he was just throwing stuff around to see what stuck. He did it with me too, but I'm perhaps more used to that kind of player.

No he didn't, in what universe is 51% mafia 49% town a read?

His entire endeavor was pointless.

This forum sorta sucks for this kinda thing