Open Side Menu Go to the Top

04-29-2011 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
Am I not entitled to express my opinion? Is that a privilege to be denied Sen. AL too?


Skallagrim
I'm good with all opinions. I'm unclear about official PPA policy.

Are you saying Senator Al, PPA Chairman, has an opinion that IP "already is" legal and that opinion could differ from the PPA stance on current legality of offering and playing IP?

Maybe his opinion is just about the game of poker and / or playing, but he hasn't opined on legality of promoting IP?
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole"
$25m Guaranteed WPM on CoinPoker
Join the action now
Daily Rewards • Splash Pots • CoinRaces
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole"
04-29-2011 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
Novahunter, we are going to see a Court rule on these issues if any of the defendants in the BF indictments choose to go to trial. Nothing else will move faster inc ourt than that case at this point.

And how long will that take? YEARS. I do not want to wait years for the return of good online poker.

So the only chance to not have to wait years for the return of poker is get a policy change, either the DOJ changes policy or the Congress changes the law.

I say we push for both with all the voices we can muster.

Leave the courts to the lawyers.

Skallagrim
We're going to be waiting years for the return of good online poker. Even if the DOJ stops actively hunting down sites, they aren't going to suddenly announce that i-poker is OK and passing something in Congress+finalizing regs+getting sites up and running is years away.

The best chance for good i-poker fast would be an intrastate bill in a big state, which obviously has its own problems.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x
I have been on twoplustwo for 5 years now and I've never used "ignore" on a poster. BlackBeltRizen is going to be my first. Honestly guys, we have lots to do and we don't have time to put up with this arrogance and condescension. Giving people like this any attention is only distracting us from things that matter.

Go count your military medals and let us get back to our efforts to fight for poker.
LOL...go right ahead and put me on your ignore list. By making this post, you prove you are a troll and are being a complete hyprocrite since you continue to reply.

You are another prime example of someone that posts about "fighting for poker", but I have yet to see a single example of anything you have done yourself to contribute to the effort. You and many others talk about action and then reference what others have done. What have you done, given that you have been so "wronged" by your government?
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazDazzle
Avoiding a "massive financial black hole" has got to be the most convincing argument for regulation that I've heard. It turns our issue into something that matters to everyone - especially lawmakers who would be otherwise averse to supporting internet gambling.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, you won't get much discusssion on this point. Most folks here are convinced the government has irrevocably harmed them by going after Stars and FTP on Black Friday. And they are unwilling to listen to any intelligent explanations regarding the fact that the DOJ might actually have valid concerns regarding the illegal activites the sites may bave been engaging in, such as attempting to bribe and "buy" banks.

And I'm sure to get flamed as an "Evangelical Christian" for saying this (even though I don't go to Church..LOL), but this situation here on 2+2 is just plain moral relativism, although more so in a legal sense. But, I'm not sure legal relativism is an actual term. Based on the indictment, Stars and FTP seemed to do whatever the execs felt was right or justified in their own minds, regardless of the law. Now, you can go and take that attitude..."I think I will do whatever I think is ok by my standards"....but don't be suprised when you get arrested once in awhile when you do things that are considered illegal by the rest of society.

To top it off, there are avenues the poker sites could have pursued to force the government to make a legal decision regarding poker and it's relation to the UIGEA. They chose not to, and instead potentially put player's money at risk by engaging in illegal activities. If someone considers that ethical and fair, I would love to hear what their definition of unethical is.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
If someone considers that ethical and fair, I would love to hear what their definition of unethical is.
Indicting foreign nationals you know you will never bring to trial so you have a legal basis to seize money that you know belongs to law abiding Americans.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
...Based on the indictment, Stars and FTP seemed to do whatever the execs felt was right or justified in their own minds, regardless of the law. Now, you can go and take that attitude..."I think I will do whatever I think is ok by my standards"....but don't be suprised when you get arrested once in awhile when you do things that are considered illegal by the rest of society.

To top it off, there are avenues the poker sites could have pursued to force the government to make a legal decision regarding poker and it's relation to the UIGEA. They chose not to, and instead potentially put player's money at risk by engaging in illegal activities. If someone considers that ethical and fair, I would love to hear what their definition of unethical is.
TBH, at first I didn't think they would ever be so dumb. I figured it was what they had to do because they were so big. But the more I read & hear about it - http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/apr/29/poker-websites-actions-were-risky-experts-say & Chuck Kidd's quadjacks interview http://******/AYGA6c - the more baffled I become and the more I think your right.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 05:01 PM
PokerStars player funds are never at risk. Player funds are held independently in trust and would survive complete bankruptcy / destruction of the parent company.

PokerStars has potentially risked itself. Not anyone else's money.

You could say the founders have risked their lives to protect your freedoms, lol. doesn't sound unethical to me.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Wrong. "Covering their ass" meant that they decided to follow the law since they could find no loopholes to legally work around it. PartyPoker leaving US Market >>>>>> Stars and FTP committing bank fraud, in terms of maintaing trust and credibility.
You still don't get it. PartyPoker was PUBLICLY TRADED. If they weren't PUBLICLY TRADED, they could have very well stayed in the US along with FT and PS.

WE WERE LUCKY that FT and PS never offered IPOs (they were about to before the UIGEA passed). Because if they had, they likely WOULD'VE LEFT the US like PartyPoker did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Wrong (from your perspective). So the UIGEA f'ed everything up and I don't like it any more than you do. But that bill was passed 5 years ago. What have you done to help get the bill repealed? Sitting here on 2+2 and railing against the DOJ is a joke, especially considering I think the DOJ would not have moved against the sites unless the current situation had presented itself. If someone had not ratted the poker sites out about trying to buy a bank in Utah, you and I would both still be playing on Stars or FTP, but just oblivious to the nonsense that the execs at the poker sites were trying to pull behind the scenes. The Congress was "******ed" in your words by passing the UIGEA. If you have done nothing in 5 years to help repeal it, then you are just as "******ed" for accepting it.
No UIGEA, none of these things happen.

And lol @ you for thinking for the last 5 years I and all the angry posters on 2+2 have done nothing. Have you ever heard of the PPA? I won't even get into the respect I've lost from my peers who fail to understand how online poker works and how it is nothing like pulling a slot lever and praying, despite my efforts to educate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Wrong. I never said that the only way to support or defend freedom was to serve in the Armed Forces.
Bull****. You imply it with your arrogant and condescending posts, for which some posters are even putting you on ignore for. The way you used that quote also implies it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, you won't get much discusssion on this point. Most folks here are convinced the government has irrevocably harmed them by going after Stars and FTP on Black Friday. And they are unwilling to listen to any intelligent explanations regarding the fact that the DOJ might actually have valid concerns regarding the illegal activites the sites may bave been engaging in, such as attempting to bribe and "buy" banks.

And I'm sure to get flamed as an "Evangelical Christian" for saying this (even though I don't go to Church..LOL), but this situation here on 2+2 is just plain moral relativism, although more so in a legal sense. But, I'm not sure legal relativism is an actual term. Based on the indictment, Stars and FTP seemed to do whatever the execs felt was right or justified in their own minds, regardless of the law. Now, you can go and take that attitude..."I think I will do whatever I think is ok by my standards"....but don't be suprised when you get arrested once in awhile when you do things that are considered illegal by the rest of society.

To top it off, there are avenues the poker sites could have pursued to force the government to make a legal decision regarding poker and it's relation to the UIGEA. They chose not to, and instead potentially put player's money at risk by engaging in illegal activities. If someone considers that ethical and fair, I would love to hear what their definition of unethical is.
Are you ****ing kidding me? You wanna talk about morality and ethics? Do you even know how the UIGEA was passed? Do you know why it was passed? I can guarantee you it wasn't in the name of improving port security.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-29-2011 , 06:49 PM
GUYS, stop replying to the trolls! FFS this thread has gone to complete ****.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
Indicting foreign nationals you know you will never bring to trial so you have a legal basis to seize money that you know belongs to law abiding Americans.
Once again, I'm glad to hear that you no longer practice law. If the DOJ wanted to seize funds belonging to law abiding Americans, then why did they allow the poker sites to make a deal so quickly to expedite the return of those funds? Now you are just convieniently ignoring facts. You should check the "fail" in your own posts before you insult others who can figure things out on their own and don't need your legal "expertise".

It's sad when there is a thread in NVG dealing with the legal aspects of this case and it's far more accurate than similiar threads in Poker Legislation, even though we are blessed with the opinions of legal "experts" like mpethybridge
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Once again, I'm glad to hear that you no longer practice law. If the DOJ wanted to seize funds belonging to law abiding Americans, then why did they allow the poker sites to make a deal so quickly to expedite the return of those funds? Now you are just convieniently ignoring facts. You should check the "fail" in your own posts before you insult others who can figure things out on their own and don't need your legal "expertise".

It's sad when there is a thread in NVG dealing with the legal aspects of this case and it's far more accurate than similiar threads in Poker Legislation, even though we are blessed with the opinions of legal "experts" like mpethybridge
The player money seized in the hands of processors will be forfeited by plea agreement with the processors, in exactly the same way it has been forfeited in in a prior seizure case.

You're fighting above your weight class, sir.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 11:50 AM
Does any member of Congress think that Online poker is currently legal in the US I doubt it, so why do we continue to make this argument when it gets us nowhere. Of course they think there's a "massive financial black hole".
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa
Does any member of Congress think that Online poker is currently legal in the US I doubt it, so why do we continue to make this argument when it gets us nowhere. Of course they think there's a "massive financial black hole".
Does any member of Congress think that poker is or might be a game of skill played between players rather than against the casino and therefore either might be or should be exempt from the laws banning slots and sports betting?

I think so .... http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...poker-1028630/

Does any member of Congress think that licensing and regulating online poker would be a far better method of avoiding a "massive financial black hole" than creating a black market?

I think many do, Barney Frank comes to mind first.

Why must we abandon the first point in order to make the second?

Granted most Congresscritters are incapable of holding two distinct thoughts in their minds at the same time, but how do you know in advance which single thought is going to resonate with any individual Congresscritter?

Skallagrim
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa
If its legal to offer online gambling in the USA and the DOJ is wrong then how come every other company in the world with an interest in gaming hasn't challenged the DOJ claims. Why was it only us facing sites that said offing online poker is not illegal. Why don't the big casinos,foreign online rooms that dodn't serve the US and card rooms challenge the DOJ. Why do casinos want legislation if all they have to do is get the courts to prove its already legal. Seems to me everyone except the US facing sites thinks the DOJ is probably correct.
They are scared, they don't stand up to the bully, they run, for one, and two they know the USA does whatever they want anyway laws be damned.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa
All I want to know is is this time going to different. Are there going to be court challenges made by the PPA or other on the underline legality of offering poker in the USA or is it all just talk. If as many claim, that offing online poker is in fact legal are we going to see a court rule on this or are there just going to plea bargains and standing issues for the PPA.

I could be wrong but its almost as though there is a pattern when it comes to this issue and fighting in court. It seems like every time there is some big 'bust" by the DOJ there is always talk about how we have good legal arguments and can fight "this" in court only to see plea bargains or decisions not to appeal.

When processors first starting going down the forum filled with 'legal types' saying this and that about how we can fight this and win, and maybe these legal arguments are correct,IDK But of course there is no big trial and everyone plea bargains. Then the talk turns to how the PPA can still fight the case only to find can't because of standing or some other issue.

Then when Russo lost in WA all the talk was how there would be an Appeal at the Federal level and many were talking about DCC and how we could win and what not. Only in the end to find there would be no Appeal

Then it was if e-checks and other payment methods were under attack then the PPA would fight the DOJ, but that went no where either.

So now everyone is back talking about the Big fight In court and proving once and for all that offing online poker is legal in the USA, but i suspect that's not going to happen either. They'll be plea bargains and some defendants wont appear before a court and the "Big" question about the legality of online poker will never get answered by a court of law. Then there will be those saying but the PPA can bring a case, unless that standing issue gets the way again.

obviously I understand that in many of these cases the PPA has legal and technical reasons for not be able to fight in court. But, if that's the case then why waste so much time worrying about the "legality" of online poker and trying to prove its legal if we're never going to get a chance to prove it in a court of law. Maybe that's because we don't have a real good case to prove the DOJ wrong, I'm not sure. Maybe instead of focusing on litigation and litigation strategies we should just focus on legislation.

I don't really know And Of course I could be way wrong. And If I am wrong I'll be glad to be proved wrong when the legality of online poker makes it way into a court of law and wins.
I think your right and I agree, but hope for better. I can speak for myself and say that is what I have to deal with as a 2nd, 3rd, 4th class citizen. It's just the long, hard slog now towards justice and gaining civil rights, while we wait for the rest of America to grow up and become aware as we are now.

We are already aprox. 5 years into it. And the DOJ's recent action is, well, look at it this way when ever evil tries to take a step forward, inside that step is its demise. Because it just fuels the anger of the people who see injustice. Haha, talking about DOJ and injustice, very Orwellian.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
04-30-2011 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa
Of course they think there's a "massive financial black hole".
You don't see the ridiculous irony in that?

The UIGEA was written to "stop terrorist funding."

The DOJ goes, "Oh ****, there's a ****load of shady money going around. We know it's from online poker and not terrorism, but it COULD be."

They then use the UIGEA to cut it off.

The only thing is, this massive black hole never would've existed if they hadn't written the UIGEA in the first ****ing place.

It's not that they don't think it's legal, it's that they never cared. And the only reason they care now is because there's lots of money involved, which has garnered the interest of people like Gary Loveman and politicians salivating to get on camera and say look I helped teh economiez by bringing tax revenue and teh jobz!"
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
05-01-2011 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Personally, I'd like to see you try to knock the **** out of me. Good luck with that. I would be more than happy to take off my officer rank for the day so you wouldn't have to worry about getting in trouble and then I could proceed to plant my foot in your ***.

My attitude is a result of listening to the whinny, cry-baby, online poker players who have done little for their country or even to partake in civic responsibilities as U.S. citizens. They are quick to criticize the DOJ, who has no choice with regard to which laws they prosecute (which is an irrelevant discussion regarding this indictment anyway), yet these same people likely haven't gotten out from in front of their computers since 2006.

And as far as I am concerned, if you haven't voted, contacted/written a Congessional representative (or even the President), served in the military, or done anything else to help further and support the freedoms that you have here in America...then you don't deserve any sympathy when all you do is cry, whine and complain on an Internet poker forum about losing freedom. If you think that makes me think my opinion is more important than someone elses, then so be it...and as we say in New England...TOUGH ****!

For the uninformed, a person who hasn't done a damn thing for his country (US) other than being born here, has just as much right to speak his mind as anyone else, including you.

And yes, law enforcement does pick and choose what to enforce/who to go after.

And as far as you planting your foot in someone's ass, keep dreaming that dream. You obviously aren't old/wise enough to realize that no matter how badass you think you are, there's always someone ready, willing, and able to make you their bitch.

Military service definitely hasn't taught you much.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created "massive financial black hole" Quote
05-01-2011 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsABingo
Most people in this planet are essentially glorified sheep. They get told what to do and they do it. They scare easily, are duped easily, and lack high levels of intellect. Even thinking about the words "War on Terror and War on drugs" they seem like such poor idioms but they sure sound serious to your basic human. Its about as stupid as saying "War on Water" "War on Greed" "War on Hindsight".

This isnt even about freedoms being taken away, what little that remains, its the fact the government wants their cut, they always do. Even before the UIGEA in '06 how long did you think the gov't was going to let billions of dollars funnel out of the system into the pockets of others, untaxed dollars at that.

Why do you think countries like Canada, UK, and others all still allow poker and will continue to do so forever? Could it be because they dont tax gambling winnings/poker winnings? Yes. I can still use my VISA even to deposit on Stars/FT etc! That hasnt been available in the US since 2006 lol.

Doesnt canada have to worry about money laundering? About underage gambling? About terrorists? (lol) Online gaming wrecking lives? <insert other insane reasoning> No we don't, because these are not actually REAL issues - they arnt in the USA either. Its all a guise covering the fact the gov't wants to make money.

People are shocked and whatever, but you knew it was coming soon, US gov wants its tax money and its going to get it....
I agree. And surprised that someone else thinks that people behave in such a way. Interesting too the different perspective from someone watching this from the outside. Thanks. From inside, this is hell, and very frustrating, like some 2 foot, 5 year old hitler/satan ordering people around. I don't know what the USA is devolving into...like if capitalism and greed is falling apart make it fascist that'll save us. The USA really needs to join the rest of the world out there in the 21st century, meanwhile a minority of uneducated, rich, crazies try to take us back to the turn of the 19th century.

Maybe the difference between the USA and other countries, is that we have so many "baby boomers".
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-01-2011 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeltRizen
Personally, I'd like to see you try to knock the **** out of me. Good luck with that. I would be more than happy to take off my officer rank for the day so you wouldn't have to worry about getting in trouble and then I could proceed to plant my foot in your ***.

My attitude is a result of listening to the whinny, cry-baby, online poker players who have done little for their country or even to partake in civic responsibilities as U.S. citizens. They are quick to criticize the DOJ, who has no choice with regard to which laws they prosecute (which is an irrelevant discussion regarding this indictment anyway), yet these same people likely haven't gotten out from in front of their computers since 2006.

And as far as I am concerned, if you haven't voted, contacted/written a Congessional representative (or even the President), served in the military, or done anything else to help further and support the freedoms that you have here in America...then you don't deserve any sympathy when all you do is cry, whine and complain on an Internet poker forum about losing freedom. If you think that makes me think my opinion is more important than someone elses, then so be it...and as we say in New England...TOUGH ****!
The goal here is to create guilt within others (you "whine" too much) so then you will submit to the accusers will.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-01-2011 , 08:39 PM
"The Godfather does not tolerate 'successful defiance.' It is too dangerous. It must therefore be stamped out so that others understand that disobedience is not an option."

~Noam Chomsky
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-01-2011 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esevans
And as far as you planting your foot in someone's ass, keep dreaming that dream. You obviously aren't old/wise enough to realize that no matter how badass you think you are, there's always someone ready, willing, and able to make you their bitch.
I am old and wise enough to realize this. I'm just not concerned about Internet chumps like you or the clown who wrote that idiotic reply to begin with.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-02-2011 , 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warlord25
Sorry if I'm maybe sullying your post with my harsh opinion, but,

They are paranoid. The problem with that kind of thinking, not that the DOJ cares what I think, is that first if your a paranoid DOJ agent or FBI agent you tend to think like a criminal and assume everyone is a criminal, because hey you feed your family finding crooks.

Second of all, they have no proof of any wrong doing...there likely isn't any terrorist chatter that said, hey, let's funnel money though pokerstars. They just assume the worst; paranoid thinking. It's basicly a pre-emptive strike, like the Iraq War. "We have no proof, or even any hints, but let's take it down anyway."
When you think about it, poker sites would actually be ideal for funneling money. Let's say Person A is a terrorist financier and person Z is a terrorist. Person A deposits money online to "gamble," and initiates person-to-person transfer to Z, who then withdraws the money and claims it as "gambling income." Or you can have intermediaries, players B through Y, and A transfers to B, who transfers to C, etc., until Z gets the money. These transfers don't leave any money trail outside of the site itself, so the FBI cannot tell where the money is going. For a more subtle way of transferring money, A and Z could sit down at a high stakes HU table, and A could just fold his money to Z pre-flop incurring no rake. Or you could do the same with the intermediaries.

The point is, governments don't like when they can't see where the money is going. The fact that it might be *possible* to finance terrorism through poker sites means from their perspective that it's a liability. Several years ago a company called E-gold was indicted by DOJ on similar charges (money laundering). E-gold was a digital gold currency system where users could buy digital gold through third party market makers, then transfer it to other users' accounts. E-gold themselves didn't do anything illegal, but their system was very useful for money laundering, since users could register with fraudulent personal information (there was no verification system), and transfers only showed the account numbers, which were anonymous. The transfers were also irreversible. It was very easy to move money around, and the DOJ couldn't see what was going on, so they indicted E-gold and shut it down.

Basically the government is going to shut down anything whereby users can move money around without government oversight. Messed up, I know, but that's how it is.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-02-2011 , 03:34 AM
Shai is right.

Another way of putting this is that before the internet, offshore banking was only available to a few rich Americans. It was viewed with great suspicion by the government and they did their best to track money flows offshore because they were often associated with tax evasion or crime.

The internet, including internet poker, made it possible for millions of Americans to move significant amounts of money offshore for the first time.

The federal government's response to online poker has everything to do with this development and the potential harms that could result from it.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-02-2011 , 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud
When you think about it, poker sites would actually be ideal for funneling money.
How so? If I get a 30K transfer and try to withdraw it, doesn't/couldn't it raise flags and warrant security investigations etc.? I'm pretty sure FTP was pretty diligent about even smaller amounts. I mean how many transfers-->withdrawals over 10K does a site get? I'm not even talking about chip-dumping at those levels: I'd assume the whole process is pretty transparent. If the whole intent of the BF was to stop the money laundering, it made things even worse, since the security of smaller sites is so much worse... They can't be that short-sighted/stupid? I mean the whole thing cries for legislation.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
05-02-2011 , 06:14 AM
Black holes, fraud, morality come on guys this is politician talk. All excuses to divert attention from the real reasons for the crack down.

If there is one thing everyone should know by now about the current state of this government is that any move it possibly makes is pushed from behind by giant corporations and there lobbies. It's the major players in the US gaming industry we should be talking about and pointing the finger at. This is a power play by casinos to either rid them selves of online poker or to take over online poker nothing more nothing less.

I for one am really hoping the major casinos are going to move in on the online poker market. Not that I like them or the way they've treated ipoker it's just the only shot we've got at the legal regulated ipoker market every is hoping for. We should be sending letters to casino owners forget sending letters to your congressman/woman or senators unless they're filled with millions of dollars in campaign contributions.
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot; Quote
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot;
$25m Guaranteed WPM on CoinPoker
Join the action now
Daily Rewards • Splash Pots • CoinRaces
Senator's aide: DOJ source said sites created &quot;massive financial black hole&quot;

      
m