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09-14-2014 , 08:26 PM

#551

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

I think I need to go back to not posting in this thread. I enjoy the entertainment but, damn.

09-14-2014 , 08:27 PM

#552

swissmiss

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,069

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Lol. I might have to de-hug-it-out for this.

Nooooo!! But seriously: no?

09-14-2014 , 08:29 PM

#553

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Not really.

But I don't get how somebody thinks "you are only worth being ignored" is not equivalent to calling them "worthless".

Like draw a set of things a person is worth in both phrases. And then for each element in the sets figure out if that is actually something positive. Then add up the total positives and compare the totals in each set.

09-14-2014 , 08:30 PM

#554

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

I do have to laugh at how this tiny insult is considered comparable by some to the sustained vicious attack on Bruce. These things are not just a question of scale.

I think you might find that if a certain handful of people stopped trying to defend Bruce's inappropriate behavior this "sustained vicious attack" (lol) would end pretty quickly. And before you try to turn that around, keep in mind that this whole thing got reignited by people trying to defend poor Bruce's honor over something that most of us had already moved on from.

09-14-2014 , 08:30 PM

#555

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,085

Why sheepdom? I would much prefer that my glorious reign be o'er a more prestigious host. Possibly the caliphate of kimodo dragons (if it needs to be green) or maybe flying squirrels. I assure you that if this suggestion of shepherding is intended as an insult then my vengeance will be swift and fierce

09-14-2014 , 08:30 PM

#556

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Lol. As I said, I don't care about pvn's feelings from the insult. It was more just one example of many of the SMP's cries of how unfair the attacks on BruceZ were while doing the exact same thing (with much less evidence) to others.

The only reason that's not totally ridiculous is that there has been more attacks on pvn then just this one, which would be insignificant in isolation

09-14-2014 , 08:32 PM

#557

TomCowley

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anus

1) he doesn't need to be a mod to help people with their homework

And 2) it doesn't sound like he helped you learn anything if you're incapable of doing your homework without his assistance

Or Zeno also had this on his mind and misattributed.

09-14-2014 , 08:33 PM

#558

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Oh, I have.

But I can't get over someone that claims to play a contrarian and likes to argue controversial points of views who also flies off the handle at being called out for posting controversial points of view. It's bizarre to me that someone like this doesn't just say "You caught me! I don't actually mean that **** but I think its an interesting discussion. Sorry if I offended any of you overly sensitive people".

What was there to get caught doing?

Bruce not ever considering he was being objectionable from an outsider's perspective. This is a source of the sensitivity and is a mistake.

The other-side of the sensitivity and mistake issue are outsiders looking in. Taking in sight of the objectionable material. Not considering the person who made them was not intending to be objectionable in the setting towards anyone before making a conclusion.

Two mistakes that equal out in a sensitive compromising fashion.

09-14-2014 , 08:33 PM

#559

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Or Zeno also had this on his mind and misattributed.

Fair enough.

09-14-2014 , 08:35 PM

#560

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

What was there to get caught doing?

Bruce not ever considering he was being objectionable from an outsider's perspective

Let me stop you right there.

He's stated that he knew he was taking controversial positions as part of intellectual debates.

09-14-2014 , 08:35 PM

#561

swissmiss

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,069

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Well, I'll have to proof how nobody is worthless in the end. And this is a pretty hard thing to do. But I think it is a good starting point when dealing with other people, no?

09-14-2014 , 08:35 PM

#562

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Oh, I have.

I hope so.

Quote:

But I can't get over someone that claims to play a contrarian and likes to argue controversial points of views who also flies off the handle at being called out for posting controversial points of view. It's bizarre to me that someone like this doesn't just say "You caught me! I don't actually mean that **** but I think its an interesting discussion. Sorry if I offended any of you overly sensitive people".

For various reasons that didn't happen, now you know what one of the initial reasons was and then things escalated angrily and rapidly. People aren't perfect, they don't respond as you might like all the time. Get over it.

09-14-2014 , 08:36 PM

#563

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Or Zeno also had this on his mind and misattributed.

That was my first thought as well.

09-14-2014 , 08:36 PM

#564

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Why sheepdom?

Because werewolfdom sounds awkward.

09-14-2014 , 08:38 PM

#565

Zeno

Le Misanthrope

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,617

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDuker

My initial thought was that this might be a misunderstanding where "his greenness" was taken to be some snarky version of "his royal highness Sir Bruce of Mathland". But even in that case, it "belittles" Bruce, not Ryan.

Important point. And see wellnamed's post also. Ryan has been a poster for sometime in SMP, a somewhat young and disorganized person that seems to have a good heart and is trying to improve himself in many ways. I was being a bit defensive - When I saw his post and PVN's response.

This is a tiny little thing that seems to have gotten out of hand. My apologies.

09-14-2014 , 08:38 PM

#566

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissmiss

Well, I'll have to proof how nobody is worthless in the end.

No you won't. We're comparing two statements about worth. By your logic you don't believe "You are worthless" is equivalent to "You are worthless" based on some axiom that nobody can be worthless. But we're talking about what specific words mean - not if that meaning is correct or not.

09-14-2014 , 08:40 PM

#567

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeno

Important point. And see wellnamed posts also. Ryan has been a poster for sometime in SMP, a somewhat young and disorganized person that seems to have a good heart and is trying to improve himself in many ways. I was being a bit defensive - When I saw his post and PVN's response.

This is a tiny little thing that seems to have gotten out of hand. My apologies.

Fair enough.

09-14-2014 , 08:46 PM

#568

swissmiss

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,069

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

By your logic you don't believe "You are worthless" is equivalent to "You are worthless" based on some axiom that nobody can be worthless. But we're talking about what specific words mean - not if that meaning is correct or not.

I really have a hard time time understanding that. So people can be worthless because worthless does not mean worthless? So why is it a problem to call anybody worthless?

09-14-2014 , 08:47 PM

#569

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Actually, probably best to kill this derail and leave the thread to go back to its main purpose.

09-14-2014 , 08:49 PM

#570

Zeno

Le Misanthrope

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,617

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCowley

Originally Posted by Anus View Post
1) he doesn't need to be a mod to help people with their homework

And 2) it doesn't sound like he helped you learn anything if you're incapable of doing your homework without his assistance

Or Zeno also had this on his mind and misattributed.

Sh*t. My apologies to PVN. With so many posters and so much on-going discussion, I hope most will understand how this can happen.

Let's end this little derail and everyone can get back to whatever and wherever this thread seems to be headed.

09-14-2014 , 08:58 PM

#571

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

lol again it's just so telling that when it came time to defend Zeno's post against an insult from an outsider there was a collaborative effort to workshop 3 or 4 possible explanations. There's an incredible benefit of the doubt granted to people who are in the club over there, but everyone else can go **** themselves.

09-14-2014 , 09:01 PM

#572

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Let me stop you right there.

He's stated that he knew he was taking controversial positions as part of intellectual debates.

That is not what I said. The outside perspective taking in the objectionable content is not what was considered.

09-14-2014 , 09:03 PM

#573

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

swissmiss, jjshabado, et al

I think the confusion is that pvn meant that bruce doesn't have to be a mod to help with homework, i.e he could keep helping regardless.

Zeno took him to be using "his greenness" more like a title of derision, i.e he thinks pvn is asking "lol, how did he help you?" and so zeno explains how he helped and then alludes to pvn being of poor character.

Well, it is Zeno we are talking about here, so we certainly shouldn't rule out the possibility that he purposefully used the most obtuse reading possible in order to start a 90 post derail and get some of the heat off of Bruce.

ETA: also this doesn't explain swissmiss's confusion, it was clear she didn't even read my post. replying to swissmiss is basically about as productive as replying to spank or alexm at this point, it should be avoided at all costs.

09-14-2014 , 09:07 PM

#574

Zeno

Le Misanthrope

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,617

Just one more thought - This little dustup is a good illustration of what happens in an emotionally charged atmosphere. Which is one reason I usually stay away from threads like this. But that aside, some reflection by all is in order.

And one more aside. At this point isn't the discussion moot. Not that you all can't rehash it through yet again.