Agree. Except that, some of the arguing/debating seems to go beyond bad and into bad faith/disingenuity, which I can definitely see as trolling, or at the very least unwelcome. I'd say bundy sailed into these waters a little while ago on this same sex marriage issue.

LOL. I love that you take the entire post, and ignore all the important points to cherry pick this one thing you have an argument for.

Yes, I understand that the two sides can bring in their own experts. So then, can you cite any court cases where such experts came in and testified in a same sex case that there was no benefit in partner X having joint custody with partner Y, since they were the same sex?

And any responses to the actual meat of that post?

Right, this is exactly what I'm trying to get at. Perhaps you've stated it more clearly so bundy can understand, although I suspect lack of understanding my point isn't the issue.

I have no idea what your point is any more. But I'm starting to care less and less.

At this point I’m more concerned that ATF may get shut down. Yes, I’m still old enough to remember the last time politics got shut down, and yes, it was because of extreme anti-Israel posts that crossed the line into anti-Semitism. Juan Valdez still willing to die on the hill that somehow a nazi salute is not as bad as whatever imagined “racism against whites” he’s referring to.

We've come full horseshoe.

Yes but again where is the sufficient sample size? I'm not considering with any great weight the instances cited given the infancy of all of this in the western world (and that includes gay couples not even married couples) having the right to adopt kids. Sorry again I'm re-visiting this in 20 years.

Why do we need to revisit this in 20 years? You said "it is quite clear that on average a child's upbringing is going to be much more enriching if it has a male and female parent in its life". Still awaiting your evidence/citation that shows it is quite clear.

Just so you know - we all make mistakes sometimes. There's nothing wrong with admitting it.

Bobo,

Let the record show that bundy posted in Politics for years before being exiled. It's because I'm intolerant of differing opinions, you see.

So like, where are we going to let the Overton Window get to before we shut this thread down? Asking for a friend.

If he's always been like this, I don't know how he lasted a few days, let alone a few years.

Correct. And that is credible given the sample size of cases that come before the courts. We are only talking about a handful of cases in the grand scheme of things when it comes to gay couples whether married or not and their abilities to raise kids as good or better than hetero couples.

This is exactly why you are banished from politics, there are studies listed there as far back as the 1980. A meta analysis of those studies would show a huge sample size. You are so completely convinced that you are correct in your world view that you hand wave away a half a century of research. Of course you want another 20 years of research and study, and in 20 years you will want 20 more.

Some are better, some are worse, but we've had dozens maybe hundreds of bundies over the years in politics.

Dude is still conflating courts and research
lmao. Amazing work bundy.

WTF are you talking about?

Again - you said "it is quite clear that on average a child's upbringing is going to be much more enriching if it has a male and female parent in its life". Still awaiting your evidence/citation that shows it is quite clear.

And keep in mind, courts ruling in favour of both parents having custody in heterosexual marriages demonstrates nothing unless you can show it happens less often in same sex marriages. Even that would be a pretty thin basis with which to declare "it is quite clear that on average a child's upbringing is going to be much more enriching if it has a male and female parent in its life", but at least it would be something.

FFS - what sort of standard do think the courts are trying to set? You have a better standard to go on?

Scientific research.

Maybe even 50 years worth.

Yes and who applies that to the context of the situation with legitimate authority?

But it doesn't even matter - courts ruling in favour of both parents having custody in heterosexual marriages demonstrates nothing unless you can show it happens less often in same sex marriages. Even that would be a pretty thin basis with which to declare "it is quite clear that on average a child's upbringing is going to be much more enriching if it has a male and female parent in its life", but at least it would be something.

Best I can tell is that because courts give visitation to both parents in a divorce you think that somehow means that it is better than two of the same sex people raising them. Which is absolutely bonkers.

Not going to happen with any reliable basis - again this is an argument for 20 years time.

So, I guess you'll be retracting your statement that "it is quite clear that on average a child's upbringing is going to be much more enriching if it has a male and female parent in its life"?

In a perfect world, yes.

No it's not racism against white people, it was already explained to you that it's racism directed at a Korean
You mean can we shut this down so you don't have to keep running away from commenting on actual racism from participants in this thread and can pretend you're super against racism? Super outraged at the antisemitism expressed through mocking your meltdown over a picture of 14 year olds

Rage Hierarchy

1. picture of 14 year olds doing a nazi salute on the internet
2. someone pointing out how silly it is to get worked up over a picture of 14 year olds
3. A 16 year old with a smug look on his face when an old man walks up to him and drums in front of him
- A 2p2 member participating in this thread directing racist comments at a Korean poster. This does not get a number because zero emotion has been expressed

No. That doesn’t show that at all jfc