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Personal Attacks in Political Forums by Poobahs Mr Wookie, 5ive, goofybalef AoFrantic etc Personal Attacks in Political Forums by Poobahs Mr Wookie, 5ive, goofybalef AoFrantic etc

06-21-2017 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Changing the rules is perhaps not required. What is necessary is fair, equal and unbiased application of the rules.
How that is enforced exactly, I'm not sure. Maybe have one mod from each side of the political divide.
i addressed that idea in the past with no volunteers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
nominations?


and i want people like wookie. a respected poster who is all over this whole site talking about poker and beer and dancing and sports and movies, as well as politics.
06-21-2017 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Uh huh, so you were just saying that all muslim people are just... super muslim, right? What exactly does that entail to you? Do you think its impossible to be moderate in any religion? Is there no such thing as a moderate jew, someone who doesnt follow the Torah to the letter? Hell, wouldn't anybody who doesnt follow their book exactly as written be more moderate than those who don't? Your attempt to walk back your bigotry just makes you seem really stupid
Hey is that Zork guy still being a big ****ing coward?
06-21-2017 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Well, you know. If you can't beat them, may as well join them.

You can only bash your head against a brick wall for so long.
You're not really bashing your head against a wall if you're not making any effort to substantiate your posts. That's actually no effort, and lends credence to the idea that you're a no-content troll uninterested in actual dialogue.
06-21-2017 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
You're not really bashing your head against a wall if you're not making any effort to substantiate your posts. That's actually no effort, and lends credence to the idea that you're a no-content troll uninterested in actual dialogue.
Well, no-one else has to substantiate their posts. So why should I?

I mean, seriously.
06-21-2017 , 06:41 PM
Wait, is mat saying he likes dancing, or that wookie does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Well, no-one else has to substantiate their posts. So why should I?

I mean, seriously.
I did wrt clovis. And similarly you did with your offer of posting your infraction history, but I trust and respect you enough to assume you're a reliable authority on your own infraction history.

Nothing says you have to, but respect works both ways. You can't assume you'll get it from others without being willing to earn respect yourself.
06-21-2017 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
I can see my infraction history and I can assure you there are no infractions or bans for racism.

I will provide evidence if requested. (unlike some other people around here)


I do apologize as it appears I might have confused you with a different politics poster.

Statement regarding Zorkman stands tho as he's shown his overt bigotry in this thread and has a history in POG.
06-21-2017 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmayB
I do apologize as it appears I might have confused you with a different politics poster.

Statement regarding Zorkman stands tho as he's shown his overt bigotry in this thread and has a history in POG.
Thank-you. I accept your apology.
06-21-2017 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorkman
This is so typical of your side to sputter an epithet ("bigot!" "racist!" "sexist!" "homophobe!") whenever someone upsets your delicate snowflaky balance of liberal nirvana by daring to have a different opinion than you.

It's lazy in every way, especially intellectually.

I prefer to call Muslims what they are--Muslims. I prefer not to modify their religion with a "moderate" or any other adjective, for that matter. You want to know what they stand for? Read their book. You want to know whether they approve of equal rights for women and gays? Ask around. You want to know whether they approve of various violent actions against America? You will note an uncomfortably high percentage (well, anything higher than 0% is uncomfortable to me, but ymmv) who think we had it coming at best or that it was a good thing it happened at worst.

It's also cool to equate any discussion that indicates anything whatsoever negative about THAT particular religion as if the speaker had just said something horribly backward about an entire race. Well I have news for you--religion is a choice; race isn't.
muslims are much more moderate than you are fwiw
06-21-2017 , 06:53 PM
for the record, this is a clovis post from two months ago that I think quite blatantly violates forum rules:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
If there was justice the nuke would selectively kill only moronic trumpkins, taking sushy first.
It's still up, though I have no clue if anyone reported it.

There's 2 guys who moderate that forum, and that thread alone has over 40k posts. Maybe a combination of more mods and more post reports would help conservative posters feel like they're not being singled out?
06-21-2017 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
Wait, is mat saying he likes dancing, or that wookie does?



I did wrt clovis. And similarly you did with your offer of posting your infraction history, but I trust and respect you enough to assume you're a reliable authority on your own infraction history.

Nothing says you have to, but respect works both ways. You can't assume you'll get it from others without being willing to earn respect yourself.
I like dancing. I posted video a while back.
06-21-2017 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
for the record, this is a clovis post from two months ago that I think quite blatantly violates forum rules:



It's still up, though I have no clue if anyone reported it.

There's 2 guys who moderate that forum, and that thread alone has over 40k posts. Maybe a combination of more mods and more post reports would help conservative posters feel like they're not being singled out?
Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was talking about. Thanks for that.
06-21-2017 , 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Maybe have one mod from each side of the political divide.
The last time a new moderator was chosen for the Politics forum that is exactly what happened. The divides were a bit different back then though.
06-21-2017 , 07:17 PM
the problem i see with the "mods from each side" argument is that nothing says mods with different political beliefs will equally enforce whatever rules there are. Impartiality, I think, is more important than political leanings.

Further, it doesn't address a problem with posts not being reported (if that's part of the problem)
06-21-2017 , 07:21 PM
Maybe any bans or so-on have to be okayed by both mods, not just on the whim of one as it is now.
06-21-2017 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
muslims are much more moderate than you are fwiw


This is one of those things that is 100% a fact that Zork will find to be a personal attack. Modding politics definitely isn't easy.
06-21-2017 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
I'm not sure if it's just your incredible lack of self-awareness or you are just being deliberately obtuse.
Why can't you just answer the question? You think I can't call you out for being a ****ty poster and in the same thread insult you too? I'm surprised more people don't do that to you actually.
06-21-2017 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
for the record, this is a clovis post from two months ago that I think quite blatantly violates forum rules:



It's still up, though I have no clue if anyone reported it.

There's 2 guys who moderate that forum, and that thread alone has over 40k posts. Maybe a combination of more mods and more post reports would help conservative posters feel like they're not being singled out?
I doubt more post reports would help considering the traffic/content that the thread received after an election like this. I'd imagine there were a lot of reports. My guess would be that modding a thread in that situation would be a nightmare.
06-21-2017 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
i addressed that idea in the past with no volunteers:
I volunteer, but I'm sure you'd have a walkout and you probably don't want that, but just letting you know.
06-21-2017 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorkman
I volunteer
He said respected posters
06-21-2017 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I think this is a disingenuous characterization of your position. You wrote:



Because I am a competent speaker of the English language, I was able to understand the implicit meaning of your simile, which is clearly this:



I didn't say your post was bigoted because it refused to place an adjective in front of the word Muslim. I am not demanding that you refer to all Muslims as moderate. I am objecting to the claim that all Muslims are extremists. You made this meaning clear first by using the KKK in your simile, as well as in the same post in which you now claim to have meant something else:



Here you are making explicitly the argument that all Muslims are extremists, on the basis of your opinion of the Quran, Muslims' treatment of women and gays, support for violence, or whatever else. So, your claim that you merely wish to avoid using an adjective is clearly false.



No. The claim is dehumanizing because you are refusing to recognize that members of this group of 1.5 billion human beings are not all identical, either in their beliefs or their practices. They are not all similar to KKK members in any way. Your insistence that no adjectives may be used alongside the word "Muslim" serves the purpose of erasing the individual existence of each member of the group, as well all the differences between them. This type of tactic -- reducing individuals in a group to the value attached to the group label -- has been explored in various sociological and psychological literature about dehumanization and acts of violence. It's the connection between this kind of reductive thinking and discrimination and violence towards members of certain groups that is problematic. I say your claim is bigoted both because it's false (not all Muslims are alike; being Muslim is not a simple state of affairs like being pregnant) but also because it relies on this dehumanizing rhetorical strategy.

Note that I think this kind of rhetorical strategy can be problematic when used to describe "all Republicans", or "all Trump voters" too, although the specifics matter. Not all generalizations are false, or dehumanizing, of course, and not all patterns of over-generalization in political discourse are as likely to lead to acts of violence. But, taking into account the recent shooting of Scalise, as well as the rise of other hate crimes (against Muslims for example) it's something to be concerned about. I don't think you can claim to care about civility in discourse while demanding the right to falsely characterize a billion people as extremists.
this is a truly impressive pwning. I really cant imagine zorkman will be able to rebut this.
06-21-2017 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
i addressed that idea in the past with no volunteers:
It is difficult to have conservative posters who have been around a long time in politics or PU. A lot of conservative posters have gotten banned or gotten frustrated and stopped posting (or posted less) due to the strong liberal lean and how modding has encouraged that lean.

I got a racist ban by wookie for saying "Barack Obama doesn't care about white people". Which is a play off of Kanye west saying bush didn't care about black people after Katrina. Those were the only 7 words I said in the whole thread.

I was also called racist by a poster (after the above ban) for attacking an Obama/liberal policy with widely held conservative views despite being 2+2's biggest Herman Cain and Ben Carson supporters.
06-22-2017 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
It is difficult to have conservative posters who have been around a long time in politics or PU. A lot of conservative posters have gotten banned or gotten frustrated and stopped posting (or posted less) due to the strong liberal lean and how modding has encouraged that lean.

I got a racist ban by wookie for saying "Barack Obama doesn't care about white people". Which is a play off of Kanye west saying bush didn't care about black people after Katrina. Those were the only 7 words I said in the whole thread.

I was also called racist by a poster (after the above ban) for attacking an Obama/liberal policy with widely held conservative views despite being 2+2's biggest Herman Cain and Ben Carson supporters.
yeah so if the criteria for conservative mod is they must be liked by most people, well that rules out everybody I think

if I'm wrong, name a name and I'll heartily support them as a volunteer if Mat will have them
06-22-2017 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
It is difficult to have conservative posters who have been around a long time in politics or PU. A lot of conservative posters have gotten banned or gotten frustrated and stopped posting (or posted less) due to the strong liberal lean and how modding has encouraged that lean.

I got a racist ban by wookie for saying "Barack Obama doesn't care about white people". Which is a play off of Kanye west saying bush didn't care about black people after Katrina. Those were the only 7 words I said in the whole thread.

I was also called racist by a poster (after the above ban) for attacking an Obama/liberal policy with widely held conservative views despite being 2+2's biggest Herman Cain and Ben Carson supporters.
i understand your frustration to a large extent. i've felt it myself when engaging in conversation in the politics forum. and if this was more of a closed system like a university or a prison or a high school where it might be difficult to find other outlets, i would feel a strong obligation to make sure you had a place to express yourself without fear of sanction.

i don't think i need to continue that thought, do i?
06-22-2017 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
i understand your frustration to a large extent. i've felt it myself when engaging in conversation in the politics forum. and if this was more of a closed system like a university or a prison or a high school where it might be difficult to find other outlets, i would feel a strong obligation to make sure you had a place to express yourself without fear of sanction.

i don't think i need to continue that thought, do i?
No one is saying you're obligated. It would just be nice, fair, decent, etc. And if it requires any effort from you beyond giving a green light, then you should kill the idea immediately.
06-22-2017 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorkman
yeah so if the criteria for conservative mod is they must be liked by most people, well that rules out everybody I think

if I'm wrong, name a name and I'll heartily support them as a volunteer if Mat will have them
the criteria for a conservative mod being added to the politics forum on this site is that they have a history of posting about lots of other things besides politics and, yes, other posters should have clearly liked what they said about those other topics, in general.

      
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