Stage #755485696: Holdem No Limit $30 - 2007-09-06 23:57:41.002 (ET)
Table: KENAI Ave (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 3 - DOUBLEDRAG ($36947.50 in chips)
Seat 5 - IKESTOYS ($6042 in chips)
Seat 1 - DAVIDP18 ($7094 in chips)
Seat 4 - FRISCOMELT ($7746 in chips)
Seat 6 - CASH369 ($6000 in chips)
DOUBLEDRAG - Posts small blind $15
FRISCOMELT - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to IKESTOYS [10s Kh]
IKESTOYS - Raises $120 to $120
CASH369 - Folds
DAVIDP18 - Folds
XAJA1 - Calls $120
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $405 to $420
FRISCOMELT - Folds
IKESTOYS - All-In(Raise) $5922 to $6042
XAJA1 - Folds
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $5622
*** FLOP *** [6d 6c 9s]
*** RIVER *** [6d 6c 9s 5c] [10d]
*** TURN *** [6d 6c 9s] [5c]
*** SUMMARY ***
DOUBLEDRAG - Shows [Ac 2c] (One pair, sixes)
Seat 2: XAJA1 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: DOUBLEDRAG (small blind) HI:lost with One pair, sixes [Ac 2c - B:6d,B:6c,P:Ac,B:10d,B:9s]
Seat 5: IKESTOYS collected Total ($12231) All-In HI$12231) with Two Pair, tens and sixes [10s Kh - P:10s,B:10d,B:6d,B:6c,P:Kh]

i run hot [censored]

Why is Xaja1 not in the seat listing? Why is the seating assignment order not 'in order' compared to the action in the hand? Why isn't everyone's action included in the SUMMARY section?

Was this a HH support emailed you? I've had issues with their emailed files being completely screwed up on almost every hand like this.

Just curious, at first it looked like it may have been edited.

its is an email...

i fixed the action so it was in the right order, obv i forgot to switch the turn and river

it is a real hand

IMO anyone who still has money on AP should be worried about the site going busto. How had it developed for 'Planet poker'?

So basicly this is a troll post/incompetent support? This contradicts everything else we've read.

Folks - I'll be the first one to hoist Absolute and its "security" reps up on the cross if they butcher this thing in the end, but let's be realistic here, they've basically known about it for all of 36 hours. It's unrealistic to suggest that they'd have a full investigation, conclusion, PR damage-control and solution/restitution plan all rolled out already. Yes, we've got a legitimate beef about the Engrish-speaking low-level support reps who earn 35 rubles / week contradicting each other in their canned email responses to you, but let's give this a little time. I know everyone is hot under the collar -- myself included, after losing $6K to these cheats -- but let's keep our expectations realistic. I'm not diminishing the importance of this situation, but let's give the Mensa squad over at Absolute a little more than 2 days to figure this thing out.
I myself have some calls into some higher-level contacts I have there, who have personally let me know that they're going to let me know how this thing shakes out and what they find (although i'm not expecting a full debriefing on the latter). Keep gathering evidence, but let's not declare Absolute to be a bunch of theiving buffoons based on a couple contradictory statements from low-level support drones.

I am the last person to ever subscribe to any conspiracy theory regarding anything at all, but when I was playing the abs 1k on august 22 a few weeks back I was on AIM with Inissint and he was telling me about this player "payup" who was just winning literally every hand on another table....He eventually got moved to my table and then left and back again and eventually beat me hu, but it really was fairly unreal. I do not have the patience to sift through this whole hh to weed out the hands payup was in, but if anyone is so inclined they can do the honors......

and if I am wrong about payup, I apologize in advance, although if he is out there, I am so confident that I will pay him 1k for his exposed hole cards hand history so long as it can be authenticated.

and if there is any way to condense this I pre-authorize the mods to do so.

sheets


also, as I recall, "Thegrinder" was at his table for a long time as well (not michael mizrachi...thegrinder plays on stars as dumpingkgb and as pxfactor on ftp if anyone knows him maybe they can get him to find his hh)

edit...never mind, it is way too big, but i will email it to whoever can condense it and post it...please pm me

If AP did indeed lock 5 accounts, this may be the one we're missing. Thanks in advance to whomever sifts through this one.

That email is certainly insulting, WTF are they talking about? Were the accounts closed as other people in this thread have stated? Why were they closed and was the money confiscated? Are people getting refunds if the money was taken from the closed accounts? It makes me sick when big issues such as this arise and these poker sites send a [censored] reply and think they're off the hook. The poker community wants some answers not this blah blah blah "company policy crap". We should really hold these poker sites accountable and take whatever measures necessary to destroy their reputation if they don't want to answer questions. Mass boycotting, slandering of their name...etc if they will not comply. We pay all their bills and have the power to demand answers.

I haven't played on UB for months but UB = Absolute now correct? So Doubledrag could have swooped my money if I was playing on UB during this time?

No. But any cashout/affiliate/rakeback problems you might've encountered are definitely the result of that.

Payups PokerDB....

Date Buyin Tournament/Event Place Entrants Winnings

9/7/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 40 235 —

8/25/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 248 306 —

8/22/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 1 119 $35,700.00

8/18/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 248 365 —

8/14/2007 $100 NL Hold'em 20 85 —

8/14/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 63 136 —

8/13/2007 $3 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 628 713 —

8/9/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 54 121 —

6/20/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 28 94 —

6/4/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 51 134 —

6/1/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 6 19 —

5/30/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 3 16 —

5/22/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 2 13 $12.00

5/14/2007 $30 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 165 207 —

5/10/2007 $25 NL Hold'em 225 315 —

5/9/2007 $20 NL Hold'em 59 85 —

5/1/2007 $25 NL Hold'em 114 299 —

3/22/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 328 396 —

3/21/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 27 29 —

3/20/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 219 426 —

3/20/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 35 42 —

very [censored] disgusting, not only are they keeping everything secret in the emails, they cant even spell the words right. what the hell is up with the support over there.

Scientific Method.
Assumption: The cheaters could actually see the hole cards.
Theory 1: Cheaters are a rogue group of hackers who somehow hacked into AP's servers and compromised hole card information
Theory 2: Cheaters actually work for AP and used "security" accounts or "super" accounts to view the hole cards

Prediction-Theory 1 If theory 1 is correct, the expected response from AP would be swift. The accounts would be closed, a press release issued to their customers detailing exactly what happened, and then a detailed response about how they will ensure this kind of security breach will never happen again.

Prediction-Theory 2: The response from AP would be slow, and perhaps non-existent. They would drag their feet while formulating an excuse, and perhaps release a few small PR's to judge public response-basically, what we're seeing right now.

I need to leave soon and have only seen half of this HH so far, but Payup is another cheater.

It's absolutely the same betting pattern and inability to play well coupled with soul seeing behavior.

Sample hand. Note the fact that *two* eights are missing from the deck, giving 87 4 outs total, and the fact that Payup only minraises PF (with 88 behind him) and then check/calls that "great" flop despite the fact that, as usual, he's playing 80/70:

COCESARYUME - Posts small blind $800
QUAT4444 - Posts big blind $1600
Dealt to COCESARYUME [8h 8s]
THE GRINDER - Folds
DAVIDP18 - Folds
PAYUP - Raises $3200 to $3200
ADSKIY_BOSS - Folds
DRAWGANGSTA - Folds
BLANCONEGRO - Raises $8000 to $8000
COCESARYUME - Folds
QUAT4444 - Folds
PAYUP - Calls $4800
*** FLOP *** [10d 6h 9h]
PAYUP - Checks
BLANCONEGRO - Bets $12222
PAYUP - Calls $12222
*** TURN *** [10d 6h 9h] [4h]
PAYUP - Checks
BLANCONEGRO - Bets $24000
PAYUP - Raises $48000 to $48000
BLANCONEGRO - All-In(Raise) $27650 to $51650
PAYUP - Calls $3650
*** RIVER *** [10d 6h 9h 4h] [10c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BLANCONEGRO - Shows [8c 7s] (Straight, six to ten)
PAYUP - Shows [Ah Kh] (Flush, ace high)

A pattern is forming with these poker DBs. All of the accounts that are being affected have long histories to them. Whoever is doing this is getting their hands on newb accounts with virtually no difficulty. That could mean that this is an inside job or a group effort.

Payup's pokerdb:


Date Buyin Tournament/Event Place Entrants Winnings
9/7/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 40 235 —
8/25/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 248 306 —
8/22/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 1 119 $35,700.00
8/18/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 248 365 —
8/14/2007 $100 NL Hold'em 20 85 —
8/14/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 63 136 —
8/13/2007 $3 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 628 713 —
8/9/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 54 121 —
6/20/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 28 94 —
6/4/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 51 134 —
6/1/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 6 19 —
5/30/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 3 16 —
5/22/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 2 13 $12.00
5/14/2007 $30 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 165 207 —
5/10/2007 $25 NL Hold'em 225 315 —
5/9/2007 $20 NL Hold'em 59 85 —
5/1/2007 $25 NL Hold'em 114 299 —
3/22/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 328 396 —
3/21/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 27 29 —
3/20/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 219 426 —
3/20/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 35 42 —

qft and well said these seem like the only two viable options to me as well at the moment.

whoever is doing this obviously is not covering up well and I believe can be caught.

So payup wins the $1000 buyin three days after steamroller.. definitely needs to be looked into

So I just got off the phone with an Absolute security rep.

As of right now, DOUBLEDRAG account has been locked and is under investigation. The investigation into the matter is ongoing, but the rep kept insisting that the player "couldn't actually see the hole cards." I asked then why he was under investigation then. The rep said it was for suspected cheating.

PS He took me a lot more seriously when I very strongly reminded him that I was a very good player. He said, "I can see that" and then actually called the investigations dept they have, which is separate from the security dept.

how often does that tournament run? Can we see a list of past weeks winners somewhere?

This is the response I got from AP:
Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us.

Yes we are aware of all this posts, we always try to be aware of what
our customers, think of our service and if they enjoy playing with us.
That’s why we are always checking into all of the concerns that our
players have and we have taken actions already in this case, because of
our company policies we cant let you know what those actions are, but we
can let you know, that it wasn’t any type of hacking, it was just
someone who didn’t know how to play poker and a hole lot of luck.

If there is anything else we can assist you with please let us know.

Sincerely,

Jose
Team Absolute ~ Security & Control Department
hahaha interesting word to spell wrong.

Wow this Payup shiz makes me feel like it definitely an inside job by AP. Payup, Steamroller, Potripper all have won big gtds lately on AP, all have been accused of the same type of cheating. Just a little background for you guys on the 1k tourny, many of the players sat into it. The sat tournys are usually rebuys that guarantee 1 seat and it is very very rare that they ever come close to meeting the 1k because most players dont rebuy let alone add on. Would not be surprising somebody at AP decided they were losing too much monies on these tournys so aahhh screw it lets just win some of them and ship the 30k back to us........

I'll go with theory 2 given the info provided. A lot of poeple here said that it's impossible to hack the server and no trojans were found on their computer. What else could we believe other than absolute is on the front line of this one?