You seem to have zero idea of the actual size of the pokerstars real player pool. Hundreds of thousands of players, could even be 1 million plus. The chances of both players under suspicion being connected to OP are absolutely astronomical. The chances of even one of them being connected are also astronomical. The fact that BOTH of them are connected to OP and BOTH OF THEM SHOWED UP COMPLETELY OUT OF THE BLUE TO DUMP STACKS TO HIM IS MIND BOGGLINGLY ASTRONOMICAL. It's not like they even have separate connections to OP - they both have the same back story - friends and students of the master of multiaccounting Roseeker. You don't seem to have ANY grasp of how odd this is.

I have posted at least twice and I think 3 times a detailed explanation on why this logic is quite simply wrong. If you're too lazy to read it I'm not going to repeat it.

No mate, you are the one who doesn't get the logic here. You really seem to have no grasp on calculating the probability of this situation.

Anyway, I'm off to the cinema, hopefully there will have been some more juicy evidence uncovered by the time I get back.

How many regs does he have connections of this nature with? If it was any of the other regs he has friends that are friends with the same thing is said right? So it's really about a ratio of possible people. Also most of the players on Pokerstars play tournaments and the ones that don't play way below 200nl and the ones who do play 200nl likely don't even buy in for full $200 before they lose it and leave. The person high on your winning/losing list is likely to be a reg or donator. So the ratio of regs that he has that kind of connection to over the amount of people likely to be on his top list is actually not that low. Also note that it's not 2 in particular it's 2 of top 3 so that works even further in his favor.

@KeanuReever- dont get mad, but are you friends with Gary? or at leasted exchanged msn/aim convo's?

-.62 is his overall 1/2 winrate (losing 2.5 cents/hand) , and that includes alot of breakeven at the beginning of the PTR graph. In his last 50k hands before posting about the prop bet he was losing 13 cents/hand, so it's hard for me to believe he was feeling confident about his game. I've been through 30+ buyin downswings before and I've talked to alot of players that have, and Gary's response here isn't exactly typical.

I'm not trying to assert that him doing the prop is earthshattering evidence, but it's a reasonable question as to why someone who would be EXPECTED to lose $750 over 30,000 hands of 1/2 based on almost 3/4 of a million hands would want to lolgamble on catching the upside of variance for $2500, even getting 3:1.

Yeah, it's pretty extraneous, I think I've willingly pointed that out, other than the fact it's how i happened to find StoppedClock.

See the hud? The guy has played like 300 hands of 1/2 TOTAL all that day, there'd be no huds stats other than the fact he's insanely loose. Would you fold this to a total unknown?

I don't know any of the details about the webcam and how it was setup.

Can you explain what you mean? Was the webcam just pointed at him and not the screen, or what?

Someone earlier posted that when he won the QQ vs T7o he didn't get excited like with other pots. Is there trustworthy people that would confirm that? Hard to give credence to one random guy saying that alone.

thought i might point something out

OP seems like he is relatively well connected in this community, so why get .5/.10 players to dump to him rather than getting a friend that plays similar stakes to him to dump a few buy ins which would be much less suspicious.

just playing devils avocado here larry, my opinion is that he probably cheated.

give te boy his monies and close this god damn thread... getting out of hand now.

gj op i trust you... if nobody else does!

Can some1 clue me in or link to the inside joke?

Seriously, I feel dumber everytime I open this thread.

Good Job Jalex.

Every post from Roseeker just makes him look worst imo.

Don't think there's any information confirming StoppedClock is a stakee/student, just that he was LINKED as a FRIEND to RoSeeker on weaktight.

He has confirmed spending time sweating breeezzz, doing prop bets with breeezzz, and there are hand histories on the internet where they played together at the same table with breeezzz bragging about bluffing RoSeeker.

FFS. I have decided to post anyway. F ck me.

I've done loads for the community, I don't deserve this bs. I've nothing to gain from you guys trying to ruin my reputation. Suggesting that I multi-account on stars, suggesting that I mockup accounts of students to make up good coaching reviews, what bs?? I don't even care anymore. All that matters is I play on Stars, which won't find me guilty of anything I didn't do, and I will taek manies and stay away from all this drama.

I am honestly appalled at the conclusions and blanket statements people make about this whole deal and also things I've done, jumping to conclusions, HUGE assumptions, and when they are proven wrong, what happens? They ignore it, without the smallest apology for portraying info about me inaccurately or misleadingly.

FU BBV.

edit: wow, just saw Jalex say that stoppedclock wasn't my student.

Thank you. I respect your work, but I am innocent, I am sorry that you have not come to this conclusion. I am not bashing you, but I am seriously tilted. glhf.

cooled down a bit, gonna answer this and explain a little bit further:

i wouldn't say me and gary are friends, we've chatted a bit on msn but thats all...somewhere between acquantance and friendship i guess. i think the main reason im defending him so much is something of a paradox. im a really naive person and i hate to think someone i've talked with could be capable of cheating/scamming people out of a lot of money. on the other hand, im severly distrusting of groups of people, almost to the point of paranoia, especially if i see a lot of sheep-like behavior.

me and zachvac are on pretty much the same wavelength, im just taking it a bit further. while it's illogical to not treat breezzz as a part of a larger pool of people fitting the same description it's equally as illogical to treat this individual shady connection by itself rather than part of a larger pool of equally shady connections. gary has hundreds if not thousands of 1st/2nd generation connections on pokerstars, many of them will look just as shady as this one.

look, if people don't understand this point thats fine, im not a judge and from the sounds of it the end result is going to be a solid fair decision anyway. i don't mean any ill will towards jalex and im very impressed by his investigating as a whole, i just feel this is a point that people aren't really understanding that has a huge effect on the probability of this being collusion.

You clearly don't own your own business. If you did, you'd understand.

Seriously, that QQ fold is a direct application of the Beluga Theorem. You honestly think this is a fold that no one makes?

Even if this is true (and I would assume it is, I don't think someone is going to make this kind of thing up), maybe he was fistpumping when he won a flip or hit his draw or whatever. Getting it in QQ vs. T7o isn't exactly super exhilarating. The odds are pretty damn good that you are going to win.

And you wonder why we think you're a shady ****? Nice choices of words.

That's TWICE now you have specifically typed him as 'rongrongrong' instead of 'rongrong' when BOTH times you've responded to a post that specifically named him as 'rongrong'.

Is there a reason why you keep changing that?

Keanu,

I think I get your point now, but could you quantify it a bit. So instead of the astronomically unlikely benign explanation for the relationship of the alleged dumpers, you think it is how much?

so ...roseeker, basically you're saying that you refuse to reveal your transfer history, and you are neither confirming nor denying whether or not stoppedclock is your student?

not only that, you've met this person in real life?

so which sentence here is true?

I'm the one who mentioned that. Blackize was on the webcam when this went down. You can ask him for confirmation.

ok cool ty.

Gary, as someone that's been supporting your side of this, let me say:

In my personal opinion, your friend has done more damage to your side of the bet than anything you've done.

this x 1000
i almost feel like it's good evidence gary didn't collude, i'd think he's smart enough to keep this guy on a leash

How many hands did he have the opportunity to three bet a single better with offsuit junk? It clearly wasn't 30K opportunities.

Anyone want to give me $ action that undeniable evidence is found to show that OP cheated?

I'll even lay you odds.