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Originally Posted by jjshabado
I certainly accept H1-Bs are abused. I've never said the system, as is, is perfect. In fact, I think I've been pretty clear that lots of companies (especially the big consulting companies) abuse the system*. I don't think any political party is actually talking about how to fix the system properly - because its complicated and its easy to be painted in a negative light. But the H1-B system can be abused AND there can be a shortage of skilled workers. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Your bolded isn't a logical conclusion. Just because the system is abused and used for lower skilled workers by no means indicates that there isn't a shortage of skilled workers. It could (and likely does) mean the opposite - that the abuse is exasperating the shortage of skilled workers because many skilled workers that would like to come to the US on a H1B visa now have poorer odds in the lottery.
Right, but I've still been asking for the minimum "what" that defines "skilled."
I'd also argue that the tech industry doesn't act like there is a skills shortage. Take a few observations:
-- The very high attrition rate, especially the 50% statistic among women. If keeping people around was so important, wouldn't this problem be solved pronto? At the least, nuke and blacklist the 5% idiots who are making life miserable for everyone else.
-- Using sales people to recruit talent. This isn't bad per se, but it does show a general disconnect between employer and potential employee. How many times have you been asked about a technology that you know of but wasn't sure because "linux" becomes "Line UX"or some odd variation?
-- Keeping unfilled positions opened for months on end. Many of these aren't hard to fill. This smacks of just taking resumes, interviewing, and rejecting for no other reason but to pad numbers.
-- I wish I could say I never seen any of the following in interviews, but sadly, I've experienced all of the following more than once:
* cursing me out.
* drunk or "other."
* Programmers getting into toxic arguments with each other during the interview.
* Excessive cursing and other awkward asides.
These people are, in part, the first impressions of the industry. Hooray, I'm interviewing for a company that is paying around 100k, but why the hell is everyone so miserable they can't handle life at all?
Consider if a prospective CS student discovers Hacker News. She then sees people openly tearing each other down, getting coworkers fired over some petty drama and misunderstandings, and sees people get publicly tarred. It comes across petty and immature. This is behavior you expect from prisoners and high school students. Not saying there isn't a balance of having a discussion, but sheesh.
Not to mention there is a problem with ageism, sexism, racism, etc. This is talked about, but what action is actually being taken? I mean, you can't really call a skills shortage a shortage if you aren't even willing to bring people in for an interview.
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Ok? First, I don't know if your 'translation' is accurate. I don't believe you're very good at interpreting what people say to you.
My "translation" was removing the superfluous adjectives, awkward grammar, and explanation points. I didn't remove the critical wording.
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Second, once again, employers aren't being literal with you. They have little incentive to help you out as a person/developer and a lot of incentives to let a candidate down in the most non-controversial way they can think of. I'm going to guess that the content of the email you received has very little to do with the programming abilities of the candidate receiving the letter.
I think employers should rethink this a little bit. I'm not saying that each candidate should be reviewed piecemeal, but there was an interesting rejection letter I once read. The employer sent the letter to all. It broke down, item by item, what they were looking for and what they ended deciding to go with after going through the process. It was a truly enlightening letter and one I shared with quite a few people. There was no doubt that, when you read it, you totally understood why you weren't chosen. The insight into his perspective was amazing.
But even so, it would benefit the entire community to be more honest about what is missing, as it would clarify what skills are missing. This would allow potential employees to focus on their shortcomings and, while it would benefit the competition, it would end up benefiting the employer due the positive feedback loop from everyone doing something more thoughtful than a form letter. A form letter with a bunch of misspellings, grammar mistakes, and poor use of punctuation is a bit insulting, if you think about it.
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Dave, once again, I severely doubt its an experience/skills issue in your case. Hell, half the time this forum is complaining about how hard it is for experienced/older developers to get a job. But I've covered this...
I don't really know or care that much anymore. I'm proud of what I have accomplished and the discoveries I've made. That's really all I can ask for. Skilled or not, I'm not going to beat my head on this rock any more.