** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** - Page 1330 - Computer Technical Help

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06-14-2018 , 03:40 PM

#33226

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grue

Who pays monthly?

Basically all of Europe and Asia.

Quote

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06-14-2018 , 04:35 PM

#33227

Larry Legend

Celtic Pride

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 42,243

I got paid monthly for 3.5 years, a couple times we didn't have the cashflow and I had to wait to catch up for 60+ days, wasn't fun.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 05:30 PM

#33228

KatoKrazy

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,623

Wolfram, you won't get what you don't ask for, as evidenced by my update below.

Update:
Recruiter called me back and they gave me everything I asked for. Met my salary request, and due to the job now being the next level up my RSUs also went up almost 250%!

Quote

06-14-2018 , 05:47 PM

#33229

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

That would have been a lot funnier in a spoil tag. But still, hey, awesome!

Quote

06-14-2018 , 05:47 PM

#33230

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

That's very inspiring

Congrats!

Quote

06-14-2018 , 05:49 PM

#33231

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

Something I found useful when negotiating is to remember
* the guy you're negotiating with - it's not his money. The extra you could get paid, that is your money. It matters more to you than to him

* the guy you're negotiating with is likely to have some history or affinity with sales and/or negotiation. As an engineer you probably won't. A lot of people find it distasteful - I do. I'd feel weird if someone tried to negotiate with me. But to someone who does it a lot, he is not going to see you as a weirdo if you try to get more money. He's going to expect it. It's not adversarial to these kinds of people.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 06:12 PM

#33232

KatoKrazy

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,623

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

Good points.

The recruiter actually pointed out to me that he was very impressed with how I handled the negotiations. That I asked for what I wanted, laid out why it made sense, and did it without making whiny demands or ultimatums.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 06:34 PM

#33233

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatoKrazy

Recruiter called me back and they gave me everything I asked for. Met my salary request, and due to the job now being the next level up my RSUs also went up almost 250%!

Congrats! Random question - what % of your comp is in RSUs? Do you consider that part of "salary"? (I guess that depends a lot on if the company is public or private?)

Quote

06-14-2018 , 07:08 PM

#33234

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

RSU's are the taxable income ones aren't they? So you can end up being taxed on money you'll never get?

Quote

06-14-2018 , 07:31 PM

#33235

KatoKrazy

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,623

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Congrats! Random question - what % of your comp is in RSUs? Do you consider that part of "salary"? (I guess that depends a lot on if the company is public or private?)

At this job and the level I am at, only about 15-20%. I definitely consider it as part of total comp, but don't count on it ending up being any specific amount when it vests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

RSU's are the taxable income ones aren't they? So you can end up being taxed on money you'll never get?

You pay tax on it as it vests. When it vests, you are able to sell it immediately. Essentially, if you keep it at that point, it's like buying that stock with your own money. I've always sold ESPP and RSU shares as soon as they vest.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 07:39 PM

#33236

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Guys, I've found my new job:

Has anyone used this site btw - angel.co? They seem to have some pretty good jobs listed.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:12 PM

#33237

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram

So, I'm thinking of telling them that I want 11k base. My reasoning is that I need an incentive to move from a position that I'm satisfied with, and I have a history of settling for lowball offers and I want to stop underselling myself. Do you think that is too high of a counter? I'd also like to keep the option of working there in the future open, in case there are changes in my current work.

I also have a feeling that they'll counter by mentioning the bonus, how do I deal with that? Should I ask for an estimate of how often that bonus gets paid out and calculate the EV of that as compensation towards my target?

Seems reasonable to me. I think you say how you’re excited to work with them but you can’t justify taking a comp cut at this point and so you need X.

If they counter with the bonus I think I’d say that I want salary until I get a better sense of how the bonus works. And, of course, if its a “sure thing” it shouldn’t matter that you’re taking less bonus and more salary.

How exactly you word that depends on you and how the conversation goes.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:12 PM

#33238

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Kato, congrats!

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:15 PM

#33239

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

JMakin, is it settled that you’re not going to do any development? It doesn’t sound like you’re doing any at this point or are getting any training/mentorship/help in this area.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:17 PM

#33240

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

I recently sold stuff on CL and everyone comes in below what you are asking. I had just listed for the lowest I wanted to sell it at. So instead I had to take the listings down and list at 30% higher than what I wanted to sell at.

Moral of the story, assume that their initial offer is less than what they are willing to pay by 15%-25%.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:43 PM

#33241

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!

I'm managing a few people and I never realized that I had access to their salary information, but I do, and holy ****, there is a huge disparity, and I mean huge, between people of roughly equal skill and experience.

I don't know whether to chalk it up to
* good bargaining
* timing (i.e. one was hired when it was hard to find devs and one wasn't)
* good work history (an employer is more likely to offer more money if you've earned more at a last job, even though that makes no god damn sense)
* ???

I want to find a way to true the numbers up but that probably won't be possible.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 08:45 PM

#33242

blackize5

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,358

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Guys, I've found my new job:

Has anyone used this site btw - angel.co? They seem to have some pretty good jobs listed.

I think it's basically a dumping ground and not much in the way of active employers

Quote

06-14-2018 , 09:11 PM

#33243

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

What type of cheap ass offers less than your current salary? I wouldn't even consider changing jobs without at least 10%-15% bump. Even if there were good reasons to accept for less than 10%, e.g. conflicts with coworkers, commute, no growth, not learning enough etc, I would interview with at least a several other companies before ever accepting under 10%. This isn't 2008, this is 2018 and unemployment rate is 3.8%.

Wolfram - What state do you live in?

Quote

06-14-2018 , 09:27 PM

#33244

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackize5

I think it's basically a dumping ground and not much in the way of active employers

What places are better, for when I start seriously looking? I got that last side job off craigslist.

I don't want to do recruiters because they just shove you into the first company that shows interest.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 10:06 PM

#33245

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

I want to find a way to true the numbers up but that probably won't be possible.

This has always been a big frustration of mine. I don’t know how to do this either. There are all sorts of different situations and contexts, but it generally sucks when two people are compensated in vastly different ratios to their value.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 10:30 PM

#33246

Larry Legend

Celtic Pride

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 42,243

Angellist has been a waste of time to me personally. I get invited to companies with 1-10 people and get ignored from every legit company I apply to.

Even back when I was applying to sales jobs with 7+ years of high quality sales experience, people just ignored the applications.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 10:40 PM

#33247

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

I'm ok with 1-10 people as long as their checks cash. I'm looking to work remote and build up potential companies/people to contract with. I'm not looking for stability at this point.

Quote

06-14-2018 , 11:17 PM

#33248

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

ZipRecruiter, Indeed, Slack channels for developers in your city.

i see the same companies on Stackoverflow listings all the time. not sure if they sell like a years worth of listings or these companies are always hiring but i felt like i was wasting a lot of time on there. I would definitely avoid any essay question/code challenge issued before they phone interview you.

Quote

06-15-2018 , 12:15 AM

#33249

blackize5

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,358

hired.com is great if you don't care about company size. I've gotten interest from something like 15 companies that way. Mostly startups with 5-50 people but some larger companies too. Though it might be tough if you're only interested in remote work.