Do you work at a tech/programming workplace? Is there anyone 55 there?

I do, and there isn't. I'm the graying old man at 38. Probably the oldest programmer I know there is 40. There are around 50 technical people at our location.

There are many problems with getting older, both perceived and real.

A real problem is that you get more expensive. A perceived problem (maybe a real one?) is the feeling that you're behind the times or not keeping up. Maybe not as sharp as you used to be, or as fast. I dunno. I think I'm as capable as I was at 25 but how would I know?

There's also the "would I hang out with this guy" problem, as people get older the answer that (younger) people will give becomes "no" more often, and yes, people decide based on that. I've been to more than one job interview where they've said "you're a technical match, but not a culture match" which I think is actually code for "we'd rather hire someone 10 years younger for $30k less"

Many companies Austin promote culture-fit to the extreme, openly promoting their companies like a college campus.

Just about every company will send you some link like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buLonLGzUSw

I've had more than one interview at a bar or coffee shop. I've also had discussions about what I like to drink because yes, they are at Capitol Factory, and yes, they have a full vodka bar (Stoli, yo?) next to their desks. I'm a craft beer kind of guy myself...

Austin is an aberration though. This is a city where every book store, toy shop, and clothing store has a bar. I haven't had a chance to look at cars, but I wouldn't be surprised if the auto dealership doesn't offer to toss one back before going on a test drive. As a proof of concept, check out Whole Foods on South Lamar, lol.

With all that said, I haven't really seen a terrible out of balance in age* in companies I've interviewed for or at the meetups I've attended. I don't think I've interviewed with anyone who was under 35, but that could be a result of my interests and focus.

Compared to L.A. and S.F., Austin seems more welcome to older people, but of course, many people come here after staying and working in CA for 10 years.

* I was working at one well-known tech company doing food support. It was safe to say no one was over 30 and no one would be classed under an 8 in the looks department. If the building didn't have their name emblazoned on the front, I'd think I was in a modeling agency. Being above 30 and not exactly a 7, I definitely felt out of place.

Well I've talked to Netflix, Tinder and a smaller startup over the last few years. They don't seem to have a lot of respect for corporate developers. Which makes sense because there are some terrible developers hiding out in big corporations. But I don't know how hot of a commodity an aging corporate veteran is going to be. There is very real ageism bias in our industry. It's not a joke.

Have you considered not buying so much stupid **** so you can actually retire someday?

Yeah it's the number one concern right now. I'm putting a large chunk of cash into refi-ing my house, so I can retire owning it free and clear. But thanks for the concern.

Or you know, maybe suzzer likes programming and would like to continue doing it into his 50s and beyond.

I'm only 30 and obviously a lot could change between now and then, but I hope to be doing something programming related in 25 years. I certainly don't want to retire and idle away my twilight gardening or whatever.

Gardening == physical labor === no es bueno (notice my clever use of double versus triple equals sign)

Also by not having a kid I'm several hundred thousand dollars ahead of the game at this point.

That's good enough. Maybe do a Lean Canvas and think about it for a couple of days and let it soak

While we're on that topic...I think I have a good idea (it's more of a vision to change mankind really :P). I think I could execute well on it but I'm in a research project until the end of the year. I'm a very loyal person so quitting early is out of the question. It is kind of frustrating because I want to start shipping stuff now. There's no way I want to do it on the side though because I believe in building a good brand by providing elite customer interaction which you simply can't half time.
So I'm basically in ramen-mode now and saving up as much extra money as I can. I think if I start in 2017 I could self fund for at least a year unless server costs explode dramatically.

Man I'm such a discriminating guy when it comes to technology. That video lost all credibility when the director of information management had a windows console open on his PC.
[so even before the part that is making your point]

Government jobs. I know a lawyer that works for the govt and told me they have hired eighty year olds. Not sure how feasible govt developer jobs are. I have seen jobs in WA that required web developer skills. Lower pay for sure though. Contracting too seems to be viable. Some companies do hire older developers sometimes. Not great options and yes age discrimination is real.

As I've pointed out previously, one of the drawbacks to a career in software development is that technology evolves at a rapid pace. It takes a lot of effort to stay current and when you don't make much of an effort you will be left behind. Being left behind is obviously not a good thing for future employment especially when you have two strikes against you already.

I'm not 100% sold on performing much worse as you get older, at least not in the 40-60 bracket of oldness.

It's not like we're ripping out roofs in the middle of the summer where if you're 60 you'll probably do a less efficient job than some 20 year old.

If anything I feel more productive and capable than I did 10 years ago. Learning from mistakes and having experience is something you can't learn by book smarts or theory, and that's often the things that are going to make you perform better in the long run.

I know this one dude, he's 82 and is still super sharp. He's not a programmer but he's a super successful businessman who could have retired 50 years ago and has low 7 figures in his bank account with a crazy amount of income still coming in.

He works every day, going to the office, meeting clients, etc.. I think part of why he's still so capable is because he didn't just start to assume he'll be useless at 50 and then retire.

John Carmack is 45, Larry Wall is 61, Guido van Rossum is 60, Anders Hejlsberg is 55, Fabrice Bellard is 44
Linus Torvalds is 46

There was software before zomgWEB. Many good programmers can retire by age 40ish if they so chose.

Hey suzzer,

If I go to hack reactor and learn lots of JavaScript, I can haz job? I have a bachelors! (In something unrelated)

til babel resolves node circular dependancies seemlessly behind the scenes with no fuss and now I've taken babel out and nothing works. fml.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=705


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=707

Part of the confusion on that was that I get a pretty big chunk of my salary every year as a bonus. So I tend to live hand-to-mouth throughout the year, then that bonus goes toward stuff like down payment on a house, paying down CCs (which are all paid right now) or refi. Next year might go into a new kitchen.

The most extravagant thing I've bought for my house is a $2k chair I sit in every day and a $1k piece of art that I really enjoy. It's not like I'm buying $10k gold watches or something stupid. I do spend a lot of money on trips, which I don't regret any of, but haven't had a big expensive one in a while. I spent some money to see the Royals in the playoffs and WS the last couple years - but that could easily be a once-in-a-lifetime chance. Also I got a DUI 3 years ago that cost about $20k when it was all said and done. Never doing that again.

So I'm doing better by 2p2 financial nittery standards, but I will never subscribe to that Dave Ramsey - don't spend money you don't have bull****. Life is meant to be enjoyed. I'm not going to pass on some once in a lifetime trip because I have to put it on credit card.

Sorry, we're letting contractors go right now and not really hiring.

I've worked really hard to stay current. I am basically "the node guy" at my mega-corporation. One thing I've been pretty good at is if I'm not learning anything new, I try to pick something up on the side, or get out. I get miserable really fast in a job if I'm not being challenged.

I quit a job with in 2005 where I was working at home full time and had very little to do. We had written an app that was a huge hit for our clients (clinical trial monitors at drug companies). As long as we kept the trains running on time, they were happy. But I wasn't learning anything new so I left. I discovered online poker a few months later. I could have gotten paid to learn online poker at home

It seems like I read a new article every day that shows that a) exercise and b) challenging yourself to learn new things - grows new brain cells. I've learned more new stuff in the last 2-3 years than at any time until I first started programming. I can tell that it keeps me sharp and I don't want to go too long w/o learning something new. I also try to get exercise 3-4 times/week but I could be doing better on that.

In any case I feel pretty confident I haven't lost anything yet. Maybe it will come. My ability to juggle 10 things at once in my mind and write spaghetti code that actually works may have declined. But it's been made up for by the experience of knowing how to write clean code.

I attended the SXSW job fair. There was not a single Austin-based company there, and, in fact, there were few companies with offices in Austin. First question I asked was "are you in Austin?" and 90% of the time, the answer was "no."

So either you are looking to move away or you are attending SXSW to find a job in your home town? Very strange.

Yeah, I think there probably is an anti-age bias, but I also think a lot of the perception is just optics. There aren't a ton of old programmers because the personal computer boom and first internet bubble drove a lot of people into software in the 90s. That cohort has appeared young until now.

By refi do you mean making additional payments to lower your mortgage balance? "Refi" normally means taking out another mortgage to pay off your current mortgage, either to lower you rates or monthly payments; or to cash out additional equity but that doesn't seem to be what you mean here.

I am getting a new loan to payoff the old one, and paying down a big chunk. I got a big one-time bonus in addition to my regular bonus this year. I'd rather use it to lower my loan than put it in the stock market or something. Also I'm getting over 20% equity so no more $150/month to mortgage insurance.

Rates are a lot better than when I first got the loan. I'm getting a full 1% lower. I still haven't decided if I want to do 15-year and my payment basically stays the same, or 30-year and my payment drops $600/month. I can always pay off the 30-year early, which I plan to do. But I'd save roughly $20k in interest with a 15-year loan vs. paying off a 30-year in 15 years.

But I think the flexibility of having the lower payment is best. Then I can put my bonus into improving the kitchen. And it looks like I might start having to support my dad to the tune of about $600/month in a few years. He's 75 and still working part-time at a stressful job. I told him I'd make up the difference he needs from SS so he doesn't have to eat his meager savings.

suzzer,

I've never received a DUI but can you share how it involved paying 20k out of pocket? That sounds like some story.