You're offering no money and want to be blown away. Why don't you try blowing potential candidates away instead? I see hundreds of posts like this in my area on craigslist each year offering vague equity promises for code.

Yeah and on top of that he's demanding someone who has a very broad range of skills:

Quote:

I'm looking for a partner in a joint venture using advanced analytics and modeling techniques to find profitable opportunities in various different sports betting markets.

You must be very skilled with considerable computer programming experience, this is not an entry level position. However, if you're a recent comp sci grad (or feel that you somehow have some other experience equivalency), feel free to apply. You must have experience in C++, Python, SQL, and it would help if you could find your way around R as well.

What is really incredible is that there is absolutely no reason that anyone versed in with these skills would ever need to consider something like this because of the money they are making already or can make if they so choose. Just check out what hedge funds are looking for and what they are paying. Then it also begs the question of what does he actually bring to the table? Doesn't really look like that much.

you know you could just ask rather than make snide remarks. like, i'm right here, it's not as if i'm not going to read this thread.

i know it seems absurd and pretty much equivalent of someone with some sort of "million dollar startup" thing, but it's a bit different than that. there are people, right now, doing this exact thing and making a large amount of money. i know this because i talk with them on a regular basis. since they are my friends, they have been kind enough to give me some advice, the first of which was to get a programmer and stop trying to do everything on my own. that's what i'm trying to do.

this isn't a longshot proposition, like "the next amazon" or whatever. as long as the work gets done, the project makes money, that's demonstrable. i don't blame you guys for being skeptical though, i understand that it's a pretty ridiculous request and it's unlikely to get filled. i don't have much experience with hiring people/establishing partnerships and didn't know where else to start. if nobody wants a part of it, then i'll just hire a contractor and be done with it.

i don't think C++/python/SQL is a "broad range of skills" i kinda figured that'd be part of the standard toolkit for any systems programmer. but you'd know better than i would i suppose.

So why are you offering this charity here then?

If you could just hire a contractor and get this built, why give a substantial amount of equity to someone else?

because the advice that was given to me by people who have been there was to get a partner, not to just hire someone. i don't know where you're getting "substantial amount of equity," especially if the person isn't going to post any capital when the time comes.

i'm also not sure i could just hire someone out to build it. i feel like this would be a project that lends itself a lot more to an ongoing partnership, but like i said, i don't really have any experience putting together a developer group or anything like that. so, if i can't find a partner or something like that, i'll go the contractor route. i'd rather not though.

maybe i'm going about this wrong, and i should hire a contractor and give them the option to continue in a partnership if it feels right?

in any case, feel free to ask me whatever question you'd like, and i'd appreciate any tips. i haven't been in the job market for a while so i don't really have a grasp on what's an appropriate hiring process.

The nature of the work you are suggesting lends itself to longer than anticipated timelines.

I think the proposition seems like a lot of work for an uncertain payoff (in the least time-wise), also since the person is kinda trapped in an incentive dilemma where the longer they work on it, the closer they are to getting paid for all previous work, etc. it seems very unattractive for many people that are not fairly desperate, imo.

You are better off looking for someone from 1-200/hr full time and giving them an option to continue once the foundation is created.

yeah i guess that makes sense. if someone bailed halfway through i'd still either pay them or give them equity, their choice (i imagine if they're bailing they'd want $), but that arrangement is so vague. i'm used to doing handshake deals with people i know won't screw me over, i guess i'm sort of naive when it comes to the little things like that.

i'll let this run its course and then go that route. do you (or does anyone) have any advice for hiring contractors? i feel like if you're hiring someone for a couple hundred bucks an hour, and you aren't like in the room with them or something, your likelihood of getting burned for a few k is pretty high. cost of doing business or preventable/unlikely scenario?

I'm struggling to imagine why C++ is necessary. Seems like there are better language choices regardless of the application.

And I don't get why you're getting so much hate. There are plenty of programmers working for free/vague equity on side projects or pipe dreams.

Anyway I don't know C++ and don't really care to learn it but I'd be interested in exploring the idea further if the C++ thing isn't a deal breaker

i guess i could be convinced otherwise, but a core component of what i'm going to be doing is going to involve simulating millions of games, and i'd like to be able to do that in a reasonable timeframe. i don't believe (but i could be wrong) that you'd be able to get the system time down to a reasonable level using python or something like that. although i don't know how fast python is these days, or how far its come with just-in-time compiled bytecode stuff, so i could be completely wrong.

the core of the program is going to be a pretty simple transitional state probability chain type thing, which wouldn't be insanely complex to do in C++. you could even just load that individual component in a bigger python program that handles the stuff that's hard to be done in C++ and you only have to do once, like data scraping and database interfacing.

just my humble 2c though, it's been a long time since i've been involved in any substantial project, so this could all be off the mark. which is why i'd like some help.

and i don't think i'm getting hate, i think that what everyone has said is 100% reasonable stuff. i would actually be a little leery of anyone who wasn't a little sketched out by this sort of proposal, i know it's pretty abnormal. or i guess maybe it isn't and there's tons of sketchy dudes pitching startup equity options, and that's the problem.

Uh no?

Necessary for what? To graduate maybe, otherwise mostly it isn't.

Good way to view it IE the right language for the right problem domain. Certainly there are problem domains where C++ is very appropriate.

It isn't hate. With the skill set he is indicating it his highly unlikely in my view that that anyone that has that skill set would work for vague equity.


Cool.

You forgot this part.

Quote:

I'm looking for a partner in a joint venture using advanced analytics and modeling techniques to find profitable opportunities in various different sports betting markets.

So you are supplying the algorithms that go along with this?

Look I am not going to get into a flame war over this. The bolded indicates to me that you have an unacceptable attitude about the project and the person from the gitgo.

Quote:

Developer
The Hagan-Ricci Group, Inc. - Los Angeles, CA
$150,000 - $300,000 a year
Experience programming in Python or Java. Los Angeles financial services firm is seeking a career-oriented person to serve as a member of their software...

They don't even require C++ . Good luck.

If you're a programmer, you should build a prototype to vet the idea since it's likely that the idea as conceived is not going to work. Even if it does, the process of building a prototype will give you a better understanding of what skills you'll require from the programmer and will also serve as a medium for communicating exactly what it is that you're trying to do.

As it stands, it sounds like you have some vague ideas that you feel somebody with real programming skills can turn into real $$$ and you want to verify that for free on someone else's time. I also have no idea what you bring to the table. If I wanted to write a sports sim to do sports betting, I can do that by myself. What special sauce do you bring that will be useful here? Again, this is the part where having a verified prototype will help - if you have working software that models some insight you have into sports simulation that at least does something interesting, then it's much more reasonable to try to find someone to flesh out the details, improve the performance and add other missing components.

i'm very disappointed to learn that suzzer does whipits.

@Fubster - This seems to be the type of developer you are seeking:

Quote:

C++ Developer, Trading Technology
The Hagan-Ricci Group, Inc. - Chicago, IL
$225,000 - $325,000 a year
UNIX/Linux and SQL skills. Familiarity with scripting languages Python, Perl, UNIX Shell, awk, etc. Chicago based trading firm is looking for an experienced C++...

Chicago based trading firm is looking for an experienced C++ Developer to work closely with traders and quants in integrating their business needs into firms’ technical infrastructure. The ideal candidate will have 5plus years C++ work experience with ability to disseminate market data to trading strategies as well as send and manage orders submitted to a trading venue. This is a great opportunity for a talented developer with a proven track record to join a successful team. Position is a collaborative one calling for superior interpersonal skills in order to build and maintain trading strategies, infrastructure, and tools with peers and internal clients.

Responsibilities include:
Identify potential areas for optimization and performance enhancements
Provide and adhere to project estimates and software development timelines.
Technical troubleshooting, testing and debugging.
Must have an understanding of regulatory compliance and risk management issues associated with trading.
Requirements:
UNIX/Linux and SQL skills
Object Oriented programming expertise
Familiarity with scripting languages Python, Perl, UNIX Shell, awk, etc.
Knowledge of version and revision control practices and procedures.
Experience with writing exchange data feed
STL and multi-threading proficiency
Undergraduate degree (CS, Math, Engineering or Physics).

Given the median salary of software developers and the pay rates that people with above skills can command I think you are vastly undervaluing the skill set you are seeking.

I lol'd hard at that at the time. @Suzzer

The other issue with this sports sim is the engineers that have great communication and business skills that have those required technical skills for low latency trading applications are already worth 7 figures a lot of the time.

Not really much anymore.

I think fubster was hoping he could pay someone peanuts to build him whatever it is he's looking for.

@Fubster, what timeline do you have in mind?

I've been curious about working with sports betting for a while and might be up for this, depending on the details & compensation. I have a strong background with game simulations / AI, preferably in Java instead of C++ though.

Unfortunately I can't possibly add any new projects before summer, but pm for details/background if you are interested anyway.

Happens all the time, especially if we're talking about side projects. Lots of engineers build stuff just to build it. But there are plenty of engineers working for just equity or way under their market rate because they're part of some tiny unfunded startup.

Right. The question was in reference to his project requirements.

Agreed. His project description didn't sound like one of them.

I disagree. I see it all the time where engineers get suckered in to below market rates or working for equity because they like the product, challenge of the problem, learning new stuff, whatever.

I'd agree with you if this were a full time gig, but he's billing it as a side project.

His project sounds like something that Pypy would work very well for.

"twice when I was 17" is still way too many times!

>.<

Ya sizzlah. How dare you explore your own consciousness in a way that has no effect on others...

talk to an artist some time and ask them how frequently they're approached by bands looking for someone to do album artwork, who don't want to pay the artist in question or want to kick them like twenty bucks or something for a week's worth of work

people massively undervalue some types of work, and it's often due to an overestimation on their part of how easy the work is

"it's just art, you draw something, you add paint, you're done, right?"

don't think fub was trying to rip anyone off, just don't think he'd fully thought thru what he was asking for

Hey, look, I did whipits once, when I was like 18 or 19. Once.

I also huffed glade air freshener once when I was 13. Once.

Learn the socially-acceptable ways of getting ****ed up, ffs! It's not that hard!