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07-06-2013 , 12:34 PM

#9326

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,154

I'm not even sure what I should ask for, and thus have failed in my googling. Perhaps some of you may have ideas.

I have a task to build a database app. and if it's easy enough I'd prefer to do it through a web browser. If I told you my first thought is to use <FRAMESET>, that prob gives a good idea of my level of HTML vintage.

What I want is something single-page like a gmail is. I need multiple panels that can have different content loaded to them from database, be independently scrolling etc. I guess that's all fancy CSS and AJAX? I am familiar with PHP, so will use that preferably for the DB stuff. Any ideas how to do this frontend? or is this insane hard and I should just stick to frames, or build a client app?

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07-06-2013 , 12:34 PM

#9327

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,052

@ muttiah

I just figured it would be faster and more productive to leverage what I already know. And if I need to "peak behind the curtains" to figure something out, I'm already pretty familiar with Spring MVC.

I'll read up a bit on Rails though if you think it's a good idea.

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07-06-2013 , 12:37 PM

#9328

clowntable

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 45,557

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

Anyone have thoughts on Spring Roo?

I want to learn one of the high productivity web frameworks and would like to leverage my Java background so I guess that means Grails or Roo.

I currently use Spring MVC and both Grails and Roo sit on top of that. Grails would require that I learn Groovy while Roo is pure Java. A big concern I have with Roo is if it's actually being used or if it's going to die. A nice thing about Roo is I already know a lot about Spring and am really comfortable with Eclipse.

However, I'm also terrible doing command line stuff and have always programmed Java on a Windows OS, so thinking it may be a good career building exercise to partition my drive and put a Unix OS on there and force myself to learn Grails from the command line.

There are some articles/blogs out there comparing the two, but there doesn't appear to be a real consensus, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

I know 0 about JAVA-Frameworks but I know there's a Stripes book available at pragmatic programmers which tends to be a good sign (kite on the cover). Maybe someone can chime in it seems to be on the lightweight/"fun" side which sounds good

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07-06-2013 , 12:41 PM

#9329

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,052

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dave_

It sounds like you already know how to return results from a database, so you could accomplish what you want pretty easily with Dojo Dijit Layout.

http://dojotoolkit.org/reference-gui...it/layout.html

I'm sure there are other Javascript toolkits that can also do similar things, but I'm really only familiar with Dojo.

If you're not comfortable with Javascript you can use the Dojo declarative syntax which looks a lot like html.

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07-06-2013 , 01:07 PM

#9330

RoundTower

ɹǝʍoʇpunoɹ

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,562

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

the LUT for holdem (based off the famous one) is just one LUT which you can use for 5, 6, or 7 card hands. A 7 card hand does 7 array lookups, and that's it, so you don't do 21 5 card lookups.

i don't follow what you are saying about 15 5-card lookups. Maybe we're just talking about different approaches? I am imagining a single LUT approach as is used in holdem, so it wouldn't be limited to 5 cards.

I'm not familiar with "the famous one", maybe I read it a long time ago but can't think how this approach works.

Was just saying that if you have a LUT or other super fast evaluator for 5-card hands, you can turn that into an Omaha calculator that is 16 times slower than the 5-card one. Presumably this is less than 15 times slower than a 7-card one, but you make it sound like the 7-card one might be only a fraction slower than a 5-card one (7 lookups vs 5).

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07-06-2013 , 01:25 PM

#9331

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

a quick skim and this looks pretty amazing, thank you

yeah I am comfortable with JavaScript, but my knowledge of that goes back to IE4 vs NN4 browser war days and hasn't been kept up to date, similar to my HTML "skills"

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07-06-2013 , 01:26 PM

#9332

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,154

re: evaluators, how to do it in 16? I always get 60 (5c3=10)*(4c2=6)

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07-06-2013 , 01:56 PM

#9333

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,052

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dave_

a quick skim and this looks pretty amazing, thank you

yeah I am comfortable with JavaScript, but my knowledge of that goes back to IE4 vs NN4 browser war days and hasn't been kept up to date, similar to my HTML "skills"

Speaking of old versions of IE... Dijit Layout works pretty smooth on IE8 + and pretty much all other browsers. If your app needs to support IE7 and older it may act a bit clunky.

If you decide to try it and need some help hit me up on PM. I won't be around much this weekend but will have some time next week.

A quick bit of advice that is often easily missed in the tutorials -- don't forget to import the style sheets for both the standard Dojo and whatever the Layout needs. The docs should tell you what you need and where they are located.

The claro theme looks pretty nice for an out-of-the-box look. Set your body tag like so: <body class="claro"> and make sure you're importing the correct style sheets and you have a nice clean look with minimal effort.

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07-06-2013 , 02:48 PM

#9334

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,154

thanks - at this point I'll almost certainly give it a go, thankfully it's for a small group of private users, so I can target e.g. only ever Chrome/Windows

decent working on everything else is def a nice-to-have tho, and beneficial for future use

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07-06-2013 , 03:49 PM

#9335

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe Lace

Most companies build the stuff internally and have it customized for them specifically or just hire a consultant because they have 10 small but totally unrelated problems. It's not easy to find a good general purpose CRM or "ERP thingy", I don't think one exists.

Good luck building something that can compete with http://www.salesforce.com in about a week though. They are a full blown CRM service but have ERP-like stuff add ons.

The problem is every business has completely different problems. I just spoke to someone the other day where they have this non-standard way to pick vacation days. The details of it doesn't matter but, they wanted a web app setup so that people could sign in and pick their days instead of keeping track of it on paper (~50 employees).

There are others that are available. Peach Tree is focused on mid- to small- businesses, for example, and there are probably another 100 companies out there.

The basic problem all of these systems have that I have seen is that they cannot count products sold, and they can't do packages either. For example, if I am selling shirts, I may decide to sell a shirt / pant combo, and every single solution that I've worked with so far fails miserably at tracking the sales and inventory of this combo. The other package is selling, say a cup with a straw. The straws aren't actually priced, so there is a hole there as well.

The problem is multi-fold, but all of it is blamed on the software. The one the company uses can't even properly count to zero, and then there is the issue of poorly formed data schemas. You can't have these SKUs:

001_blk
001_bl
001_gr

and expect everything to bind to each other properly.

Also, what clowntable said.

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07-06-2013 , 03:58 PM

#9336

Newff

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,137

For those of you who know Objective-C and develop iPhone apps, if any of you guys do..

If you were to start from scratch with no programming knowlege, how long do you think it would take you to go from a newb to making decent apps. When I say decent I mean more complex than a tic tac toe game but not an iPhone version of Pokertracker. I have a great idea but no programming knowlege. Just started going through CS50x.

I have an idea for an app. The basic function of it would be to have a built in scanner, like those scanner apps already out for scanning documents and stuff, be able to label and organize the things you scan, and also for each thing you scan, label and store you could set a date for an alert on a certain date. So just an example not related to my idea.. you take a picture or scan your drivers license, name it, and you can set an expiry for a month before it expires to remind you to renew it.

Last edited by Newff; 07-06-2013 at 04:05 PM.

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07-06-2013 , 04:19 PM

#9337

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

That's a valid reason. But there is also value in learning a new way of doing things (Ruby is dynamic and quite different from Java in philosophy).

In any case, I browsed around the Grails site and it seems to have a very similar philosophy to Ruby (reasonable defaults instead of configuration). So the skills will be transferable.

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07-06-2013 , 05:19 PM

#9338

RoundTower

ɹǝʍoʇpunoɹ

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,562

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dave_

re: evaluators, how to do it in 16? I always get 60 (5c3=10)*(4c2=6)

yeah its 60 for sure, I misread someone else's post I guess and didn't check the numbers. In that case I guess doing 60 5-card evaluations cannot be optimal.

now I don't have any advice on how this should be done. I wrote one once (and a 5/6/7-card omaha one which might have been the only one in existence) but it was a long time ago and it wasn't meant to be very performant. I guess if I wanted to write a fast one, I would just write something naive, time it and then start thinking of smart ways to improve it.

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07-06-2013 , 06:39 PM

#9339

Shoe Lace

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveT

...

Also, what clowntable said.

It comes down to what you want to do. No <= 1 week solution is going to help you solve custom things faster. What he hinted at making is nothing but a framework for building crud apps with maybe something common integrated already like user authentication / authorization.

I recently did this in rails. With no prior experience I checked out a railscast video. It was about 20 minutes long. Implemented it in about 2 hours (had to do some research because I'm still extremely new to rails) and spent the rest of the day making it look how I wanted it to look.

This system isn't going to help me make a custom vacation day tracker though. All it's going to let me do is avoid having to recreate an authentication system and something like that is so standard to have around that it goes without saying.

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07-06-2013 , 07:30 PM

#9340

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

Who cares about authentication when the system and schema is broken? Yeah, authentication gets the customer in the door, but it doesn't keep them from going to Oracle or SAS.

Since I've done the marketing side of it before, I know it would take more than a week to create feature complete, but engineering the foundation wouldn't take much time. I would say the web based CRUD initial would take less than 200 man hours, then do rolling releases. The main consideration would be getting the inventory controls in place, add in quantity pricing options and other things. Just basic and *very* flexible.

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07-06-2013 , 08:08 PM

#9341

clowntable

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 45,557

Quote:

This system isn't going to help me make a custom vacation day tracker though. All it's going to let me do is avoid having to recreate an authentication system and something like that is so standard to have around that it goes without saying.

Yes that's the level of basic I have in mind with the tiny exception that login/authentication in ERP systems usually maps to person objects of sorts that are often used. In many common web applications your useraccount is basically only viewed by you and all info is secret in ERP systems you typically want to browse users, find their phone numbers and stuff like that. It's just a tiny tackon to the typical rails/django out of the box.
[if you feel adventurous I'd say it's really important to be workflow oriented from the getgo so tack on some workflow engine...but already WAAAY too complex for the stuff i'm thinking about]

Custom vacation day tracking is already too complex for the projects I'm thinking about. Think more along the lines of
- we have a customer, I want to enter some data about him (name, phonenumber, mail)...and no we don't need any integration with our mail system or voip..wait what's voip anyways?
- we just started a new project, i want to enter it in the system ("name", link some person's i.e. employees of my company to it, link some customer to it)
- upload invoices and other relevant documents (scanned and pdf+append to say a project will do just fine)

Really, really basic stuff. They mostly want to enter it for legal reasons thus the authentication is important (gotta know who entered what when, who modified stuff). Consultant/sales "companies", nothing with inventory or production etc.

Complexity level is not higher than a typical library OOP/ERM example.

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07-06-2013 , 08:25 PM

#9342

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

If anyone is really bored, there's a fun code formatting derail (that I started as a joke) in the politics unchained bad posters thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/21...l#post39231788

(not sure if link works if you aren't on 100 posts/page - it starts at post #1501)

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07-06-2013 , 08:33 PM

#9343

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

We definitely need people to go over and overrun that thread for a day or two.

Edit: Unless you're stupid and don't know how to format your code. In that case stay the hell out.

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07-06-2013 , 08:41 PM

#9344

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

No, especially if you're stupid and don't know how to format your code.

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07-06-2013 , 09:28 PM

#9345

Neil S

King of the sidebar

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 20,767

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

They start that right after I finally get bored with that forum, figures.

Quote

07-06-2013 , 09:28 PM

#9346

Neil S

King of the sidebar

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 20,767

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

We definitely need people to go over and overrun that thread for a day or two.

Edit: Unless you're stupid and don't know how to format your code. In that case stay the hell out.

Dangit, you're a SPACIST too, aren't you?

Last edited by Neil S; 07-06-2013 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Yeah I just had to go for the pun. I wish I had the time to edit that GIF.

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07-06-2013 , 09:34 PM

#9347

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Code:

(if (= (uses user) :brackets)
    "lol"
    "less argument with coworkers")

(I agree with your correction (unless you are using C#))

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07-06-2013 , 09:40 PM

#9348

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil S

Dangit, you're a SPACIST too, aren't you?

Yes. It just makes sense.

I sort of agree with the principled argument that tabs and spaces are different concepts and by using tabs you let the individual control their own formatting easily.

My main problem with that though is most times you can't actually take advantage of that customization because code is often lined up relative to the lines above/below and changing the tab size ruins that. For example:

Code:

public void foo (int param1,
                         int param2,
                         ...
                         int paramN) {

And so if I change my tab from something other than what the author used, the param2 to paramN lines will be off.

My main objection though is that people are sloppy. And if you always use spaces and make people turn tab->space conversions on you end up with much better code because its hard to **** up the white space by accident. It's sort of taking the lowest common denominator approach but its worth it.

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07-06-2013 , 09:56 PM

#9349

ballin4life

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,121

My gut feeling is that any code that contains lots of if else is bad style. Especially if the blocks are multiple lines. Complicated procedural flows are hard to follow.

I find this pattern especially unreadable:

Code:

if some_check:
  if some_other_check:
    do_thing1()
    do_thing2()
    ... (like 50 lines later)
  else:
    some_error()
else:
  some_other_error()