Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site - Page 13

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Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site

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12-08-2007 , 11:26 PM

#301

Nielsio

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Controlled demolition videos vs WTC towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbL165QM9wo

I find the first 45 seconds particularly convincing.

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12-08-2007 , 11:29 PM

#302

Nielsio

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Italian debate show. WTC7 vs Controlled demolition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_czyNCNhDI

Very convincing visuals imo.

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12-09-2007 , 12:02 AM

#303

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

Speaking of visuals:

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12-09-2007 , 02:16 AM

#304

scorcher863

banned

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,530

haha, I can't get enough of lol catz Post more.

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12-09-2007 , 10:50 AM

#305

goin4kona

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

OP: Any science-buffs care to comment on this? ... If you don't want to talk science, take your cynicism elsewhere.

So I waded through this monstrous thread.

OP starts with a science-based claim regarding molten aluminum.

Science people refute the claim with contrary scientific evidence regarding aluminum. Science people also refute claims made in links regarding weakness of steel at temps well below melting point, etc.

OP never directly addresses and of these science-based arguments but provides link after link of non-science based rationale for this conspiracy.

So, I guess OP never wanted to talk science after all.

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12-09-2007 , 03:17 PM

#306

surftheiop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,162

Why would he?

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12-09-2007 , 03:30 PM

#307

scorcher863

banned

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,530

Quote:

Man nothing irks me more than this. It seems people think that just because they claim something, it must be true. It is impossible to learn something if you are not capable of admitting when you are wrong.

I hypothesize that this person's major influences (or a majority of all influences) in his life ridiculed him for being wrong. "What... daddy is not coming home at 8, he's coming home at 9. What's the matter you can't count?" Cue the ego, and voila, no longer is constructive learning possible.

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12-10-2007 , 03:03 AM

#308

kevin017

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Case Closed

I understand that it is really frustrating debating with Neilso. If I was on your side of the argument I would not see a point to continuing. I really don't want to go through this thread and count the amount of times people call him an idiot or a kook or stupid or something of that nature. There are a lot of people out there who are looking into this information for themselves and it's discouraging when every site I go to 911 truth people are harassed to no end.

WRT to his reply to my first post in this thread, well I am going to unfairly clump you in with all the people who are against Neilso in this thread, sorry if you never really did any of this stuff. I don't think he is insinuating that you're all CIA members or Cointel Pros or anything of that nature. It's just very obvious that you guys seem to enjoy derailing the hell out of this thread and making it unreadable. It's not a conspiracy theory, there are a ton of lolcats and ad hominems people seem to enjoy derailing this thread.

nobody is against neilso until he starts ignoring us. he began this thread with totally bogus information. after it was disproven, he ignored the response, and moved on to asking for a sequential mechanism. after one was given, he said it was unsatisfactory because it didn't account for "outward energy" and some other terms which nobody even knows what they mean. After we attempted to explain stuff to him by saying the force of the fall can pulverize walls, floors, furniture into dust and blast them out the sides, he ignored it and started posting links to the crap he reads all day long for 2 pages, and on and on we go until and then kerowo saves the thread by posting cats. people try, people fail, people post cats. business as usual.

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12-10-2007 , 03:10 AM

#309

vhawk01

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Quote:

Originally Posted by scorcher863

LOL this is funny. Sort of mean and Psych-101-ish but funny nonetheless.

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12-10-2007 , 03:23 AM

#310

scorcher863

banned

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,530

Quote:

LOL this is funny. Sort of mean and Psych-101-ish but funny nonetheless.

lol, thanks man. Doesn't it remind you of a certain heated debate this morning? I try not to be mean, but this case had an educational purpose and was a victimless crime. BTW spot on analysis, Intro to Psych is as far as i've made it.

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12-10-2007 , 09:12 PM

#311

Nielsio

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Many Pakistanis believe Osama is CIA agent working for US (Good Morning America)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGXVic15ho

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12-10-2007 , 09:30 PM

#312

hardtimes1

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 58

I figure if there's anything to the science of this stuff it'll be on the discovery channel one of these days. I'll take a look at it then when I can have some small confidence in the fairness of the presentation.

PairTheBoard

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12-11-2007 , 09:36 AM

#313

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

Many Pakistanis believe Osama is CIA agent working for US (Good Morning America)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGXVic15ho

Probably because the didn't do their homework

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12-11-2007 , 03:22 PM

#314

govman6767

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

Many Pakistanis believe Osama is CIA agent working for US (Good Morning America)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGXVic15ho

\

Would make sense to why he's not dead yet

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12-12-2007 , 09:32 PM

#315

nuclear500

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Quote:

Originally Posted by govman6767

\

Would make sense to why he's not dead yet

Who said he wasn't?

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03-18-2008 , 12:41 PM

#316

Phil153

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Quote:

Originally Posted by arahant

What a tool you are. That was even lamer than 9/11!
http://www.429truth.com/

ROFL that's good.

Quote:

Arnold in the pocket of Big Crab
November 20th, 2007

Every news outlets seems content to parrot the official story: Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s order to delay crab season was nothing more than a well-meaning effort to protect seafood lovers from the oil leaked by the Cosco Busan. This explanation is laughable to anyone who is courage enough to read between the lines. Who is behind fabricating this panic in the crab markets? Follow the money and you will find that the governor’s order is just the tip of a sinister crab-shaped iceberg.

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03-18-2008 , 12:49 PM

#317

Phil153

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sirio11

You're probably right, since I didn't read all the thread, but still I'm yet to have here a good discussion about this issue, I've tried in the politics forum, EDF, here and it's rather difficult to have a good discussion. I could care less for the kooky theories, but even with obvious things like government responsibility and accountability and the right to have an independent investigation, people in this forum are easily offended, probably since the majority here are Americans, it clouds their judgement and are pretty sensitive about this issue, usually it's easier to talk about 9-11 with non-Americans.

Well, I think the first 5 or so pages are an excellent and unbiased discussion. What more do you really want?

As for the rest, you're one of the first intelligent people that I've heard take 911 conspiracies seriously, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on what bothers you about 911 and what alternative theories you think are plausible.

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03-18-2008 , 01:27 PM

#318

yossarian lives

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,464

This exchange that Borodog posted earlier in this thread should be enough evidence to ban Nielsio from the science forum as well as politics.

Quote:

[15:50] Borodog: Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you understand the physics of the WTC collapses.
[15:50] Nielsio: That doesn't really help me
[15:50] Borodog: Do you know how much energy was stored in each tower, available for demolition was the collapse began?
[15:50] Borodog: *once
[15:51] Nielsio: There is a problem when you a combination of a number of factors
[15:51] Nielsio: *have
[15:51] Borodog: I'm not talking about that
[15:51] Borodog: I'm talking about the energy avaliable for demolition
[15:52] Nielsio: If you say that gravity was enough for the collapse, then you cannot account for either the speed of the collapse OR the dust
[15:52] Borodog: it's about a trillion joules per tower.
[15:52] Borodog: whoever told you that is simply wrong
[15:52] Borodog: the dust is solely from drywall
[15:52] Borodog: do know how much drywall was in that building?
[15:52] Borodog: millions of pounds
[15:53] Nielsio: It doesn't just hop up in the air and turn to micro-dust
[15:53] Borodog: it get's crushed instantaneously, yes
[15:53] Borodog: as the higheer floors plow into any individual floor like a freight train
[15:53] Borodog: take a peice of drywall, and strike it with a hammer
[15:54] Borodog: it is immediately pulverized and turned to dust; which explodes in every direction
[15:54] Borodog: try it
[15:54] Borodog: a trillion joules
[15:55] Nielsio: What about the floors
[15:55] Nielsio: Do they also explode instantly?
[15:56] Borodog: when hundreds of thousands of tons slam into them at a hundred miles per hour?
[15:56] Borodog: Yes.
[15:57] Nielsio: So do the floors offer resistance or no?
[15:58] Borodog: You know the answer is yes, but you also know that the resistance offered is completely ne igable.
[15:58] Nielsio: (floors+inner and outer steel frame)
[15:58] Borodog: Dude, its THOUSANDS OF TONS MOVING AT HIGH SPEED. You have no intuitive understanding of an impact like that.
[15:59] Nielsio: Ok, so let's say we have this big mass of body moving straight down
[16:00] Nielsio: Breaking through everything it comes upon
[16:00] Nielsio: Which offers almost no resistance
[16:00] Nielsio: Then it would seem to me that I would not expect this much dust
[16:00] Nielsio: Because in order to have that, you need resistance
[16:01] Borodog: dude, there was millions of pounds of drywall, which is little more than compressed dust
[16:01] Nielsio: On the other hand, I would then also not expect such a massive energy outwards
[16:01] Borodog: come on. You know it doesn't work like that. When a dump truck runs into a fly, does the truck notice the fly? No. But the fly sure as hell notices the truck.
[16:02] Borodog: What, exactly, does "energy outwards" mean?
[16:02] Borodog: I'll give you a hint; it has no meaning. Energy does not have direction.
[16:02] Nielsio: http://usera.imagecave.com/markyannone/Album9/wtc.jpg
[16:02] Nielsio: That kind of outward energy
[16:02] Borodog: There is no such thing
[16:02] Nielsio: Outward force
[16:02] Nielsio: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/sor11000.jpg
[16:03] Nielsio: Also, I would be interested in a detailed sequential mechanism
[16:03] Nielsio: Which you seem to be hinting at
[16:03] Borodog: This is just silly dude. The building is full of air. As the building collapses, the drywall is instantaneously pulverized into dust and blown out by air pressure.
[16:06] Borodog: Do you really find it so hard to believe that dust from a building collapse can be blown out to a distance of X from a building that is X wide and almost 9X tall?
[16:06] Borodog: I mean, honestly?
[16:06] Nielsio: Yes
[16:06] Nielsio: http://www.columbia.edu/~rr91/images...20collapse.jpg
[16:06] Nielsio: Usually, buildings behave much much more like objects
[16:07] Nielsio: With structural integrity
[16:07] Borodog: Most building are dropped from the bottom down when they are demolished, not from the top down.
[16:08] Borodog: The whole building falls in free fall. In this case the collapse started at the top; the upper floors acted like a snowplow, building up mass and momentum as they fell.
[16:08] Nielsio: If that is the case, it should be pretty easy to turn that into a model
[16:08] Borodog: People have.
[16:08] Nielsio: Into something that predicts what happens
[16:09] Nielsio: And makes it understandable
[16:09] Nielsio: No, not really
[16:09] Borodog: It's perfectly understanable.
[16:09] Nielsio: You cannot get the blueprints; it's illegal
[16:09] Nielsio: The Discovery Channel models are not even funny
[16:10] Nielsio: Also:
[16:10] Nielsio: NIST has not described any such sequential mechanism
[16:10] Nielsio: It does not go further than ' obal collapse ensued'
[16:11] Nielsio: I would be seriously interested in that
[16:12] Nielsio: Do you have a gmail address? I have some pictures of strucural failures and fires
[16:12] Nielsio: They're pretty interesting
[16:12] Borodog: Dude. I have no idea what to say to you. The energy avaible for those collapse was 5% of the energy of an ATOMIC BOMB. If you don't think you can knock down a skyscraper with that, or eject some dust a few hundred feet, then you just simply want the conspiracy more.
[16:13] Nielsio: Energy != sequential mechanism that takes into account all structural elements
[16:17] Borodog: You want the conspiracy more.
[16:18] Nielsio: What do you mean
[16:18] Nielsio: ' obal collapse ensued' is not a sufficient explanation
[16:18] Nielsio: In fact, it's not an explanation
[16:18] Nielsio: It's god of the gaps
[16:18] Nielsio: And I don't accept that
[16:19] Borodog: No, it isn't.. The building burned for 7 hours or something until the structural steel failed.
[16:19] Borodog: It was already damaged by being STRUCK BY A JUMBO JET FUEL OF JET FUEL.
[16:20] Borodog: A bomb indeed went off in each tower. THEY HAD WINGS.
[16:20] Nielsio: Actually, the north tower burned for less than an hour
[16:20] Borodog: After being struck by a JUMBO JET FULL OF JET FUEL
[16:20] Nielsio: So
[16:20] Borodog: The fireballs blew out through the far side of the building.
[16:20] Nielsio: These buildings were designed to take airplane hits
[16:21] Borodog: Do you honestly think there's no possibility that the structure was damaged?
[16:21] Nielsio: You're avoiding the issue
[16:21] Borodog: no, I'm not
[16:21] Nielsio: Is ' obal collapse ensued' a sufficient explanation or not?
[16:21] Borodog: you're avoiding the bleedin y obvious
[16:23] Borodog: I think the JUMBO JETS FULL OF JET FUEL and the ensuing GIANT EXPLOSIONS IN THE BUILDING STRUCTURES is a sufficient explanation.
[16:23] Nielsio: If you think it's so obvious then it should be quite easy to give a detailed description of everything that happens during those 12-15 seconds that they come down
[16:23] Nielsio: A description that explains what we see on the tapes
[16:24] Nielsio: That explains the physical evidence (dust, speed, etc)
[16:24] Nielsio: That would shut the whole 9-11 thing up
[16:24] Nielsio: Completely
[16:24] Nielsio: It would shut me up
[16:24] Borodog: No, it wouldn't.
[16:27] Nielsio: Try me
[16:27] Borodog: Dude, a plane full of jet fuel exploding in the middle of a building doesn't shut you up. Some model filled with assumptions you would just claim were wrong or unjustifiable would not help.
[16:27] Nielsio: I would also like to note that NIST would be extremely interested in such a description
[16:28] Nielsio: You could probably get a whole bunch of money for that
[16:29] Borodog: sigh
[16:29] Nielsio: You're assuming your conclusions sir
[16:30] Borodog: I wish you would just step back and listen to the way you sound. This is what I hear when you talk about this: "How could a plane full of jet fuel slamming into a building and exploding cause it to collapse?"
[16:32] Nielsio: So no sequential mechanism from you?
[16:32] Borodog: So. Which is greater? Probability that a plane full of jet fuel slamming into a bilding and exploding could make it collapse, or, a giant, well organized conspiracy was undertaken by the incompetents in government.
[16:32] Nielsio: That's a pity
[16:32] Borodog: I have a sequential mechanism
[16:33] Borodog: It starts with a jumbo jet full of jet fuel slamming into the building, exploding in the heart of the structure and blowing out the far side, burning for hours, and then the steel failing.
[16:33] Borodog: How incredibly impossible!
[16:35] Nielsio: It's up to you: you claim what happens after is easy and comprehensible. So why don't you or why doesn't anybody?
[16:35] Borodog: I just did.
[16:35] Nielsio: Describe/model it for the rest of us
[16:35] Nielsio: Make it a school project
[16:36] Borodog: Why don't you show that an explosion in the midst of the steel structure of the WTC couldn't damage it to the point of failure?
[16:36] Nielsio: Get on Discovery Channel
[16:37] Borodog: Why bother? What good would it do? P(structural failure) is already >> P(giant conspiracy), and it doesn't phase you.
[16:37] Borodog: What could would shifting those numbers another order of magnitude do?
[16:38] Nielsio: Structural failure (which hasn't been proven btw) != sequential mechanism of disintegration/collapse
[16:38] Nielsio: NIST did a test with a life-size model
[16:38] Borodog: I gave you a sequential mechanism.
[16:39] Nielsio: They couldn't reproduce it
[16:39] Borodog: a life sized model? Of the WTC towers?
[16:39] Borodog: Uh, not?
[16:39] Nielsio: No, of columns
[16:39] Borodog: They slammed a jumbo jet full of jet fuel into some steel collumns and didn't damage them?
[16:39] Borodog: LINK?
[16:40] Borodog: And those columns were supporting tens of thousands of tons at the time?
[16:42] Nielsio: It's mentioned in here:
http://thefreedomchannel.blogspot.co...anisms-of.html
[16:42] Nielsio: I'll ttyl
[16:43] Borodog: later
[16:43] Borodog: no hard feelings
[16:43] Borodog: good argument
[16:43] Nielsio: Meh, a bit too much cynicism
[16:47] Borodog: He is TOTALLY NE ECTING THE IMPACT AND EXPLOSION. All he's talking about is fire. He's also ne ecting the fact that those structural members had a hundred thousands tons sitting on top of them stressing them during the fire, after they'd already been damaged by the impact.
[16:48] Borodog: and explosion

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03-18-2008 , 01:50 PM

#319

hustl

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,081

Borodog = idiot

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03-18-2008 , 01:53 PM

#320

Nielsio

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Quote:

Originally Posted by yossarian lives

This exchange that Borodog posted earlier in this thread should be enough evidence to ban Nielsio from the science forum as well as politics.

If you think science involves thought police instead of debate then you don't understand what science is.

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03-18-2008 , 01:54 PM

#321

madnak

Cooler than Sammy Hagar

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 19,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by hustl

Borodog = idiot

Borodog = PhD in physics
hustl = ???

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03-18-2008 , 01:58 PM

#322

yossarian lives

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,464

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

If you think science involves thought police instead of debate then you don't understand what science is.

And you understand neither science nor debate, as that conversation showed.

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03-18-2008 , 02:04 PM

#323

Nielsio

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

If you think science involves thought police instead of debate then you don't understand what science is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yossarian lives

And you understand neither science nor debate, as that conversation showed.

Good rebuttal imo.

edit:

Also, for someone who sports an avatar of Lysander Spooner, you seem to understand very little about agreed upon rules and constitutions.

Last edited by Nielsio; 03-18-2008 at 02:09 PM.

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03-18-2008 , 03:27 PM

#324

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

Good rebuttal imo.

edit:

Also, for someone who sports an avatar of Lysander Spooner, you seem to understand very little about agreed upon rules and constitutions.

And so should you, which is why I don't understand why you constantly whine (or send someone else to whine) about being banned from the politics forum.