Don't do it man, we don't know if heaven exists yet...wait a bit longer. Maybe we'll find proof at page 40.

I come from a country where about half the populace is atheist or agnostic, and the majority of the rest are just paying lip service without thinking much about it. We get by just fine, thank you very much.

I want there to be a heaven, I really do, but if there isn't one, I'm not really worried about it.

The reason I want there to be a heaven is because my wife wants there to be one so she can see her father who died too young and she misses terribly.

The reason I'm not really worried about it is because I'm here now. I am this collection of atoms right now experiencing this world and this time and it's pretty ****ing cool. So maybe another collection of atoms existed in the past and the consciousness that was "alive" then was experienced by me too. Or maybe in a few thousand years a consciousness will arise from another collection of atoms and I can somehow experience time again. Not as BalancedOne but as someone new.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because whether I came from a god or I came from nothing, I'm still here now experiencing this time so why shouldn't I think it could happen again?

I didn't say that every person who flat lines is to have an afterlife experience. I merely stated, that those vids in itself leads one do think that an afterlife seems quite possible. If we are to not believe in an existence of god or heaven etc, then how did we the human race get created if not by a higher power

And the higher power was created by a higher power, who was created by a higher power, who was created by a higher power...

Trust me...it is all much more sensible if you flip it and go downwards towards simpler levels instead.

A better question is even if you did have an afterlife experiance how would you remember it? What part of your memory system within your brain joined you on such a journey?

heaven existaments

Due to some rather nasty peculiarities of consciousness and our access to other peoples consciousness, it is impossible to provide proof for the afterlife or if and where consciousness exists after bodily death.

Just because no one can answer that question doesn't make a higher power any more probable. In ancient times, they couldn't explain fire, so they explained it through a fire-god. Today we know how fire works, so we mostly don't pray to a fire-god any longer.

They also used to pray to the god of the seas for safe passage. Now we know a bit more about weather, most people don't do that any longer.

Some people don't believe in Darwinism, and are therefore totally clueless about how we exist...so they explain it through a higher power

It's possible to provide evidence, though.

Sure, but only if we let personal accounts count as evidence.

It is also impossible to proof that consciousness does not survive bodily death. Unless we again allow personal accounts such as "I was clinically death and noticed nothing" to proof that "There is no afterlife (for all)".

One could also try to make a wager with a friend to visit one another when one dies. Still that friend appearing by the bedside would not be evidence for, just as the friend not appearing at all would not be evidence against.

Personal accounts definitely count as evidence.

If, for example, people regularly acquired new knowledge after an NDE, or if the reports were universally consistent, that would represent some pretty strong evidence of "something weird." And an afterlife could hypothetically be the best explanation.

Muhammad rode to heaven and hell on a donkey. Even wrote a TR about it. Not sure why you're still looking for more proof when someone already visited years ago.

This week, I lost a friend. She left her house the morning of August 20th, headed to work, and never returned home. Sitting at her desk at college, she had a brain aneurism. A beautiful life over in seconds...her family and friends left stunned.

What's life all about? At times, so fragile and fleeting. I'm left with so many questions in the wake of this week.

Have you ever wondered what heaven is going to be like...or if there even is a heaven?

does anyone else get the feeling Op was leveling?

I often times think this... probably because i give people on 2+2 too much credit for being smart.

I really hope OP was leveling. I cant handle that much stupidity

most of us are going to hell, so these thoughts don't happen too often

also sorry to hear about your friend, perhaps it was because she didn't have a constant?

It disturbs me that someone, regardless of their general beliefs, doesn't realize why this is so far from 'serious proof' of afterlife. And I know that the OP is not unique in thinking that this constitutes hefty evidence.

You completely missed the point, as others have tried to explain. Maybe this will help; "The Dragon in my garage" by Carl Sagan:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm

("Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?")

Agreed.

I've been thinking about this whole "heaven" thing a lot, and my friend sent me a link to this website called lifeafterlife.tv.

It's a movie where people who have had experiences where they went to "heaven" and then came back to life, share their stories. Their stories really have made it easier for me to deal with the loss of my friend.

I guess I have a new hope that this "heaven" really does exist.

I fired up this video, chuckled a bit when I saw the premise, and then listened as this guy told a feel good story about heaven. I was kind of happy for him. "Good for this guy," I thought. "He may be delusional, but at least he's happy." Then, the end of the video brought to my attention that this character is just trying to make a buck off of other religious wackjobs like himself. And then I laughed.

I'm not really sure why the thought of no heaven is really bad. Frankly, the idea that we simply cease to exist is a lot better then the idea that some of us go on to a heaven while the majority burn in hell. What a disgusting and depressing idea.

Seems it would be depressing to know this heaven existed but most were going to suffer eternal torment. I'm going to be positive and hope its all just the imaginings of the superstititious.

2 minutes in heaven is better then 1 minute in heaven

Frankly, the idea of an eternal heaven or hell is absurd.

So in heaven, you're there for eternity. Could I kill myself in heaven? I think I would die of boredom at some point. Think about it, you're there for eternity, you aren't going to get sick of it after 100 MILLION YEARS? I'd rather be dead and not exist after that long. What would you be doing? Watching humans suffer on earth? Having sex? Talking with God? See, anything you can think of would get painfully boring after 100,000,000 years. That's just one reason why I don't believe in heaven or hell.