he's clearly a tool for Lebron that you agree is dumb, yet you agree with all the other guys just like him such as Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe and Ryan Hollins?

And even guys like Broussard, Skip and Paul Pierce are under the hypnosis/fraud that Lebron's rosters chock-full of stars and really good players are actually bad, which means he's overcoming odds, carrying a bad roster, and "upsetting" an opponent if he wins.

But proof that he has the best on-paper supporting talent in the NBA can be seen in the preseason odds, since that's a measure of on-paper talent before any team actually plays - Lebron's rosters start as the preseason favorite but this favored talent falls to underdog or loser every year - Bron-ball always underachieves favored talent (loses with preseason favorite, or falls to "underdog")..

The exception is the Allen miracle and the "bubble" title, but the Lakers were the only team that had pulled off a historic heist to get AD, so they were the only team uniquely-motivated to snare that ring with no one really looking or giving a ****.. Otherwise, the Lakers have fallen to perennial underdog despite having AD and Lebron, while all his other teams from 2011-2016 similarly fell to underdog once everyone saw how crappy bron-ball was yet again.

i only know who 1 of those ppl are (the one who was a hof football player), but not really familiar with his dumb takes, no. sorry

Not against the good teams and that's why the Lakers have such an underachieving record and seeding.. The Lakers are letting Lebron him impose an inferior record and seeding on the team so that he can play Bron-ball against all the sub-par teams, but unfortunately it doesn't even work at the same frequency against the sub-par teams anymore - the Lakers should run it through AD against ALL teams to achieve their best record, not just the top teams where they turn to him like "pretty please??... dominate for us and carry us?.. bron-ball going to get us blown out tonight.. ".

even guys like Broussard, Skip and Paul Pierce are under the hypnosis/fraud that Lebron's rosters - chock-full of stars and really good players - are actually bad, which means he's overcoming odds, carrying a bad roster, and "upsetting" an opponent if he wins.

But proof that he has the best on-paper supporting talent in the NBA can be seen in the preseason odds, since that's a measure of on-paper talent before any team actually plays - Lebron's rosters start as the preseason favorite but this favored talent falls to underdog or loser every year - Bron-ball always underachieves favored talent (loses with preseason favorite, or falls to "underdog")..

The exception is the Allen miracle and the "bubble" title, but the Lakers were the only team that had pulled off a historic heist to get AD, so they were the only team uniquely-motivated to snare that ring with no one really looking or giving a ****.. Otherwise, the Lakers have fallen to perennial underdog despite having AD and Lebron, while all his other teams from 2011-2016 similarly fell to underdog once everyone saw how crappy bron-ball was yet again.

Anyone that thinks Lebron had a "bad team" in 2009 and 2010 should know that it would be pretty bad for an all-time great to not develop good chemistry by Year 6 or 7 - so the idea that he was carrying a bad team is no sillier than saying Giannis carried bums to 60 wins in 2019.. The only difference is that Lebron gave up on figuring out how to perfect the chemistry and win with his style, while Giannis stuck around and figured it out..

Sure it takes a little longer for awkward guys like Lebron, Giannis or Jokic but Lebron was only a couple years from getting over the hump.. Maybe if he could have an 07' ECF performance against an actual top team (beat top 5 SRS opponent with weak help, aka beat top team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick)..

And the distinguishing thing about MJ was that he had all-time and occasionally goat on-off while winning titles - no one combined goat individual dominance with goat team success except Jordan, aka 41/9/6 to 3-peat (while sidekick clogged the lane via 0% from 3 and 59% from line.. 46 ts overall).

Good point there. Only Lew, Shaq and Mike (6 times) in the modern era led the league in scoring while titling. There's something, a lot, to be said for leading the league in scoring, lighting up the stat sheet elsewhere ... all while spearheading titles. Nobody else did that habitually except you know who. Jordan was doing things with that scoring title no one else ever did. He was no George Gervin.

I think it’s more about the right handed of lebron was always better then the right handed of mj ?

DWade, AD, Kyrie > pippen ?

Yeah ppg isn’t evrything but it does really matter right ?
Could we find the goat with like 15 ppg ?

let’s say if we play a game of choosing and since I’m beginning u have the second and third choice and i got the 4th .

I obv choose mj and u choose lebron
but what u do with your 3rd choice if u have to choose between russell and wilt
OR Kareem and magic ?

Fwiw I would go with Kareem or wilt every time ?

I'd be fairly certain people who think AD is better but aren't LBJ haters either haven't watched very many Laker games and / or have listened to throwaway snippets from Simmons or the like on the one or two Lakers games they have watched.

AD is having a good year, he's still a ~top 15 player. But LeBron elevates everything more, he is more efficient and more consistent still.

But I do think LBJ is probably correctly ranked ~10th in the league at this point. He is definitely declining, it's just that the gradual nature of that decline is proving to be one of one. The reason it matters is because we can directly compare LBJ's age 38 and age 39 seasons to MJ's. And this is where the dedication to the game is shining through. LeBron has kept himself better physically, he still can run the court and still can bully his way inside at will. Plus he has put in the hours of practice on weaknesses, resulting in the best 3 point shooting year of his career, at 39. The ability to slow decline in the things that made you great through all the effort on working out and recovering; allied to finding ways to actually add to and improve previous weaknesses - this is the essence of the GOAT career.

AD is better, but kinda injury-prone.

When AD and LeBron are both healthy, the Lakers have always been a contender.

DWade at his peak was better than Pippen, although he declined fairly quickly and by 2014 he was nowhere near his peak.

Kyrie is absolutely not better than Pippen unless you think defense doesn't matter at all.

Russell is absolutely a top 5-7 player.

When you're the best player and defensive anchor of a dynasty that nearly always won, that matters. It largely didn't matter who was around Russell. The Celtics won the moment they drafted Russell.

Jordan won 70 games with poor man's AD, so simply being a "contender" with the real AD is unacceptable for goat consideration..

It's completely disqualifying.. Anything short of a dynasty with another "star" falls short of goat-caliber.

Accordingly, every tenure that Lebron had with various teams has fallen far short of goat caliber because he mostly has weak records and loses, i.e. 1/4 with AD or Love and 2/4 with Wade - none of this compares to MJ being unbeatable the instant he got 1 all-star (6/6).




This is a massive understatement because peak Wade might be better than Kobe - the idea that secondary producers like Pippen, Klay or peak Igoudala are anywhere NEAR wade is absurd.

Btw, Pippen declined from 96-99' - he was horrible and worse than Wade.

13-16' Wade............. 21/5/5.... 21 PER

Prime Pippen.......... 20/7/5..... 21 PER

^^^ Lebron fans complain about Wade because he fell to prime Pippen level from 13-16'.

Fossil Wade nearly led the 16' Heat to the ECF by playing better than Pippen ever did.. This is statistical fact.




Kyrie was going to be a great player regardless and was great right away, while Pippen was a 23-year old rookie that averaged 8 PPG and needed a ton of development - there's no guarantee that he becomes an all-timer anywhere else, nor would he have the goat ring count to prop up his pedestrian numbers and historic bricklaying/low efficiency.

Pippen never dominated and was inflated by winning spotlight, while Kyrie was always going to be great regardless - he's great with Dallas and was league MVP with Boston before the injury in 2018 (Celtics were the best team in league), while Pippen was a complete bum outside of the system that he grew up in - trash in Houston and Portland - completely exposed

.

You called Steph Curry just a 3-point shooter.

I'm glad Tien screenshotted your posts because that Steph Curry take might actually be worse than your LeBron takes.

That you actually said that about Curry not long ago pretty much proves you don't actually watch basketball, like AT ALL.

Anything you say is disqualifying.

Lebron needed all-star spacing to win 60 games, so he could never win 60 with a bricklayer and lane-clogger like Pippen.

So who cares if he won 66 with Mo when he would barely win 50 with Pippen.

(I say 50 wins because that's what Lebron won in 06' after acquiring a player that was far superior to 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball, while already having the East all-star center, HOF coach and top defenses (in the weakest conference ever).

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard and melted down vs Boston, while MJ three-peated from 91-93' with less scoring options and inferior team defenses then the 06-10' Cavs

You can say this is crazy but the stats and historical record support what I'm saying, while your delusions about Lebron's weak cast aren't supported

Everyone has bad takes but do they have the integrity and character to correct them?

So my takes have integrity by virtue of them not being set in stone or flying in the face of facts, whereas your Lebron takes that he plays 5 positions, carries teams or is a winner have been demolished and fly in the face of facts, yet you still repeat the same lies.. He's a simpleton ball-dominator that is bad at chemistry and mostly loses regardless of cast - that's the historical record

The fact that Curry proved me wrong confirms his goatness, while Lebron never proved me wrong - he continues to have weak underwhelming teams that mostly lose regardless of having the most help in the league and arguably of all-time

I don't watch today's game because it makes me vomit.. The soft, beta and ignorant mindsets of the media and league are repulsive.. The game itself is a beginner format with a bunch of guys that can't really play - this is confirmed when they lose to garbage players in tougher "real basketball" formats of the international game..

So I haven't watched since 2011, yet my predictions are better than anyone's and I have a better handle on what's going on and what will happen with teams or players than literally anyone... again, WITHOUT WATCHING

Ask me about any team or player and my prognosis will be more accurate than literally anyone in the world... Again, without watching.

I can watch guys play for literally 5 seconds and know everything about their game - this is fact - I watch guys like Cade Cunningham before the draft for literally 5 seconds and knew the consensus about him was wrong - I knew every move he liked to do and his style by watching him for 5 seconds - this is the case for every player - I can size them.up and tell.you intricate things about their game, moves abd tendencies by watching them for 5 seconds, or even just seeing them walk... no one in the world has it like that - I'm a hoops savant..


So no I don't watch today's beginner format - why would I and I obviously don't need to in order to know what's going on

The only reason I was wrong about Curry is because I let my biases blind me - I never watched him even for a second and assumed he was just a white 3-point shooter.. But after I paid even a modicum of attention to him (when I heard he had the best team with Wiggins), I quickly realized that he fits my goat criteria as well as anyone.

Sweet things are not good.

*Has piece of cake*

Wow, I was wrong; sweet things are good.

My takes are better than yours now, DUCY?

Right, and not watching basketball has led you to "basketball savant" takes like Steph Curry is just a shooter. Literally 5 minutes of watching Steph Curry would have proved that take wrong.

You're like that garbage reg who has never studied or improved his game because he thinks he's a poker genius, but is always broke and playing $1/3.

This whole dynamic and delusion of grandeur you have is a symptom of peaking in high school.

AbeSimpsonYellsatCloud.jpg

Anyway, probably time for a ban? We’ve ended up with the ‘league and media conspiring for LBJ’ and “I don’t watch the soft modern game but know more about ball than anyone else’’.

Lol I didn't read that, hasn't watched since '11 but much integrity

I really just feel sad for aul lads that pack it in once they’re over ~45 and conclude that everything in the world during their prime years was how it should be forever. Just leaving decades of interesting and engaging experiences on the table, “no thanks”.

When it comes to basketball, it’s a very narrow window of time roughly ~15 years long where super physical defense was allowed a hegemony in the game, pace of possessions dramatically decreased and average scoring rates fell off a cliff. The hubris to think this is the only way the game should be, it’s just a nonsense. Particularly when spacing and 3s is a hugely logical adaptation of strategy, made possible by skill and athleticism improvements.

The 90’s featured back up centres and defensive role players who genuinely couldn’t dribble or shoot a jump shot at a remotely competent level. To conclude ‘that’s the ONLY valid era’ is flat out delusional. At least we know on which side of this conversation the lunatics reside…

Shaq used to force teams to carry unskilled centers whose sole job was to absorb fouls against him. Guys like Chris Dudley.

There were a lot of Chris Dudleys.

Could Lebron develop a 23-year old rookie that averaged 8 ppg into a 60-win team?

Could Lebron win 60 with Pippen?

From Day 1 of Pippen's career, it would be "get in the corner and spot-up"... Imagine telling that to a young bricklayer like Pippen or Giannis - how would they ever develop???.. What examples do we have of Lebron's style growing single-digit rookies into meaningful producers??

When did Lebron and his imposition of spot-up roles ever grow young players?... So how could he grow Pippen, let alone win with him?

Accordingly, Lebron can't grow Pippen, and how would he win with a historic bricklayer like Pippen when his stiff-arm needed all-star spacing to win more than 50 in 09'?

Those guys simply couldn’t exist in the modern game, you couldn’t waste a bench spot on them. Anyone who concludes this is a function of the game being easier or softer is stupid, it’s that simple.