personally, i hate using team wins, in football esp, to rate an individuals ability.

Victor,
That was a tangent about why I personally dislike Revis/Jets.

i'm here and ready to pick, revis was definitely on our radar...would be pretty sick if you took another top CB in round 2 to pair with him!

edit: nevermind, see that the #2 CB went next...how sick would it have been to get both of them??? Ok doing my writeup now.

LEAD THE LEAGUE IN ****ING WINS tho

I guess. There's quite a few near-elite corners although next one prob doesn't get picked for some time.

assani holding up the draft

what a shocker

hope he actually makes a pick before he quits

Round 1 Pick 23: Andre Johnson



One of my longtime arguments on this board is that 2p2 underestimate the effect that a WR has on his QB and our perceived value of that QB. Look at the elite past WRs(Jerry Rice and a few undrafteds when they were in their primes) and look at how an average QB suddenly became a top statistical QB when paired with one of these guys. I absolutely believe that Andre Johnson is in that tier of WRs. Over the past 2 years he has over 600 more yards than the next closest WR. In the history of the NFL, only 2 other WRs have put up as many receiving yards combined in back to back seasons, and thats Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison, both of whom had a signficiantly better QB throwing them the ball

Yet for some reason people continue to ignore the effect that WRs have on their QB. As was pointed out in this thread, Manning and Brees have been surrounded by 1st round WR options(both at WR and at other positions which catch the ball). Brady's stats went from "good" to "insane" with the addition of an elite WR.

I firmly believe that Andre Johnson is more valuable than the 3rd tier QBs(Schaub, Culter, etc.). And I'd be shocked if the Texans themselves valued Schaub over AJ.

seriously? You complained in the short time it took me to do a writeup?

I like AJ a lot, but I don't think he's much more valuable (if at all) than several other WRs. I think it's probably a little early for him.

I agree.

consider my face melted

AJ is a terrible pick. He may not be the best WR in football and is clearly not the best football player available once you adjust for positional scarcity/value. Not even the most valuable player on his own team.

I agree with you.

Although with a qualifier, you still need a decent QB.

yea i agree with assani about wrs, i also argued/believe the same thing in a bunch of the nfl drafts we did

i think aj is a good pick, dunno why ppl think hes not the best wr, he is altho there is another guy close to him.

i dont think aj is the best wr. even if he is, there are others that are very close to his value for one season.

theres a few left in that tier or close to it that you wont get. you are gonna be stuck with a weak QB and aj. when you coulda got a strong QB and a wr very very close to aj ability.

yards the past 2 years:

andre johnson 3144
#2 guy 2523
#3 guy 2513
#4 guy 2409


And the #2, #3, and #4 guys all had surefire HOFers at QB. Johnson has 600 more yards than any of them playing with a very good but not great QB.


I'll sit back and listen to arguments for why hes not far and away the #1 WR, but I really struggle to see what you could possibly say to convince me.

Assani,
Grouping Warner with the other surefire HOFers is disingenuous when you consider the talent he has had around him his whole career.

Only problem is if you end up with some terribad QB then you lose a lot of AJ's value. But there's still at least 6 or so good QBs and a few serviceable guys. So should be more than enough not to squander AJ's value.

Agreed. But it works both ways. WRs are overrated because they play w/ great QBs. QBs are underrated because they play with terrible WRs. Etc.

There are more important positions with steeper talent dropoffs than WR. I don't hate it, but not the direction I'd have gone.

AJ's the best WR in football. It may be close, but I really don't think there's too much debate to it.

yeah this is why AJ is a bad pick imo

Manning and Brady(the 2 I grouped him with) have played with arguably 2 of the 3 greatest WRs of all time, and their #2 WRs were arguably a top 10 WR as well. Why do you single Warner out but not them for having great weapons?

This all goes back to my point about 2p2 underestimating the value a WR has on a QB.