Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)

02-01-2018 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazooka87
Of course it is, but CDL is implying that the person with $3 is becoming a millionaire with that $3 instead of just spending that on a coffee before going to a job interview. Bezos started the business with that $300k
Agreed. Apples and Oranges.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-01-2018 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight
never said it was the same, but scaling a business to $700B isn't exactly trivial either.

Also, why does it matter if the $300k came from family or an angel round or a bank loan?
I'm not saying it's trivial, I'm saying taking $3 to $1m is not the same.

'Hi Mr. Bank I'd like to loan $300k to sell books out of my garage.'
'gtfo'
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-01-2018 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451
They want to drug test food stamp recipients. Meanwhile Jim Irsay is pulled over with a decade's supply of drugs after posting pictures with whores on Instagram after inheriting every dollar he has, THATS JUST A GOOD BUSINESS PERSON.

Frankly, engaging morons like CDL is a complete waste of time. Start playing the game like the other side and stop asking permission. The Democratic Party is an embarrassment.
Irsay should be in jail. And I don't want to drug test food stamp (or UBI) recipients personally though I understand I am not being specifically referred to in that part.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazooka87
I'm not saying it's trivial, I'm saying taking $3 to $1m is not the same.

'Hi Mr. Bank I'd like to loan $300k to sell books out of my garage.'
'gtfo'
People get loans like this. It might not be easy, but its not impossible.

Read the story about how Masayoshi Son founded Softbank (https://hbr.org/1992/01/japanese-sty...-masayoshi-son). The whole article is good, but this part outlines him getting an even bigger loan than that more than a decade earlier (in a more conservative financial system nonetheless) without any collateral, business experience, or co-signers.

Quote:
When I started the company, I used straight bank loans. And that was really difficult. I went to the Dai-ichi Kangyo Bank when the company was only three or four months old. At the time, I had revenues of about $10,000 and I asked for a loan of $750,000. I told them, I have no collateral, I have no business experience, and I am not going to ask my family or my friends to cosign my loan. I will sign myself, and I’ll take all the responsibility. But unless you give me the prime rate, I’m not going to take a loan from you.

The people at the Dai-ichi Kangyo Bank said, are you crazy? What are you talking about? What are you doing here?

I said, I came to get a loan, of course.

The people at the Dai-ichi Kangyo Bank just started laughing. We can’t give you a loan, they said. Do you have anything that can convince us?

I said, no, I don’t have anything. But if you really think about business in the future, what we’re doing might interest you.

Then they asked me, is there anyone you can use as a reference?

I told them to talk with Dr. Sasaki at Sharp because he was the person I had business experience with from selling Sharp my invention at Berkeley—my pocket language translator.

The bank branch manager was a really good guy. He didn’t want to give up on me just because I couldn’t give good reasons why his headquarters should give me a $750,000 loan. So he called Dr. Sasaki. Dr. Sasaki said, Mr. Son has good business potential, so please give him this loan. The branch manager also asked Joshin Denki, and they recommended me for the loan too.

Then it was up to the branch manager to fill in the formal scorecard of the bank using his judgment whether or not to make the loan. When he used the ordinary scoring, the total was—15 against making the loan. But the last column was “potential growth.” He gave us 15 points for potential growth. So the total came out zero. He sent the scorecard to headquarters and they said, since the total is zero, you make the judgment. The branch manager said, I’m going to give him the loan.

Today at Softbank, we have a special day where we honor the few individuals who made contributions to help start Softbank. One of the people we honor is that bank branch manager.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:08 AM
LOL that loan is literally illegal under current US banking regs, for good reason.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:21 AM
Toonces, the posting bot ♪
The bot who could post online ♬
He posts in hordes, all over the boards ♪
Toonces, the posting bot. ♩
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451
LOL that loan is literally illegal under current US banking regs, for good reason.
interesting. I didn't know this. What is the statute it violates?

Even still you can get $300k from an angel investor in the form of a loan or equity. Hell, people get $300k in capital from a ****ing TV show pitch these days.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroball
Agreed. Apples and Oranges.
*****, that phrase don't make no sense! Why can't fruit be compared?
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight
I've been fine with higher taxes for year. You can even look back to my pre-election posting to find that. I'm "whining" about literally stealing from them.

Do you think it is ok to steal from the rich?
WTF? Let's go to the tape:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight
What's the argument against allowing people who have had great success to gain enormous riches?

Does it go beyond "the rich should help the poor?" or "its better for more people to have [x amount] of wealth than fewer?"

As I see it the wealthy have a moral obligation to help others, but forcing a legal obligation through excessive wealth redistribution policies is bad.



Separately, I don't believe that lower corporate taxes are bad. In fact, I think that the best policy is to reduce corporate taxes even further and in conjunction raise the marginal tax rates on the rich until you balance tax revenue. This would provide a lift to corporate valuations which would benefit anyone who is invested but would benefit those with a higher percentage of their wealth in tax protected retirement funds disproportionately compared to those with less of their wealth in tax protected vehicles.
That's you, at the start of this all, whining about high taxes on the rich funding aid to the poor too much.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 02:45 AM
CDL is pretty much crushing the debate right now
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 02:47 AM
How is it acceptable to advocate for the murder of Jeff Bezos to steal his assets itt, yet people choose to make CDL the bad guy?
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenC
CDL seems to be winning this one while his opponents are resorting to commie gobbledygook.
just saw this but pretty relevant
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 05:24 AM
CDL is doing well. And at least he’s stated a position. Near as I can tell no one else really has.

Increased personal income taxes, gift taxes and estate taxes make sense. You can do annual wealth taxes but I think estate taxes are both simpler and fairer. Like what is everyone else proposing?

Somewhat (not entirely) separate issue: Philosophically corporate rates should be set optimally. Right now I believe 35% was closer to that than 20%. But we will see the results. Similarly the Bush tax cuts expiring seemed to hurt the economy zero while jacking up government revenues. I expect the reverse to happen here on both the personal and corporate tax fronts after the new bill takes effect.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:17 AM
Taxes are a waste. It doesn't solve anything at all. I would much rather see companies forced to have an aggressive profit sharing program that is equal among ALL of the employees.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty
CDL is doing well. And at least he’s stated a position. Near as I can tell no one else really has.

Increased personal income taxes, gift taxes and estate taxes make sense. You can do annual wealth taxes but I think estate taxes are both simpler and fairer. Like what is everyone else proposing?

Somewhat (not entirely) separate issue: Philosophically corporate rates should be set optimally. Right now I believe 35% was closer to that than 20%. But we will see the results. Similarly the Bush tax cuts expiring seemed to hurt the economy zero while jacking up government revenues. I expect the reverse to happen here on both the personal and corporate tax fronts after the new bill takes effect.
Not really. He just keeps shifting the goal posts. Also, continuously ducks the political realities that prevent his stated goals from coming to fruition. Amazon is sucking up jobs that were previously widely disbursed and concentrating them in one area. It makes sense for each city to aggressively bribe Bezos to be that one area given that reality. However, it is highly immoral of him to demand such bribe, and it’s takes aggressive counter-action to address his immorality. Vague support of higher taxes while vouching for Bezos entitlement to his $100 billion as he continues to aggressively move us further away from your stated goals is just lip service.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty
CDL is doing well. And at least he’s stated a position. Near as I can tell no one else really has.

Increased personal income taxes, gift taxes and estate taxes make sense. You can do annual wealth taxes but I think estate taxes are both simpler and fairer. Like what is everyone else proposing?

Somewhat (not entirely) separate issue: Philosophically corporate rates should be set optimally. Right now I believe 35% was closer to that than 20%. But we will see the results. Similarly the Bush tax cuts expiring seemed to hurt the economy zero while jacking up government revenues. I expect the reverse to happen here on both the personal and corporate tax fronts after the new bill takes effect.
Corp taxes need to be low enough to avoid companies hiding all their money abroad. Or at least have laws were they can’t avoid taxes if they operate in this country by hiding profits abroad that they make here. The biggest issue with the current rates are we have huge firms like GE off shoring all their profits and not paying a nickel while likely getting huge benefits from the gov. We want great companies in the us, paying their fair share but that isn’t going to happen with some of the highest corporate income taxes in the world.





These are obviously old numbers but despite the highest tax rates for corporations in the developed world, our government didn’t collect that much. I’m not sure if the new plan will fix all the holes but the current system helped all big corps hide money.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoe
How is it acceptable to advocate for the murder of Jeff Bezos to steal his assets itt, yet people choose to make CDL the bad guy?
A guy whose insulin gofundme came up short might be ACTUALLY DEAD, but that's acceptable. All our of bravest most logical anti-establishment libertarians are crying about a ****ing guillotine joke instead. That's what has got tempers high.

Last edited by FlyWf; 02-02-2018 at 08:51 AM.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:48 AM
Also boy howdy our ombudsman logical fallacy spotter types are scoring this one for CDL because of how he's making such incredibly good points about nonsense hypothetical to equalize wealth that nobody but him is saying. Because he, in 2018, has apparently encountered criticism of income inequality FOR THE FIRST TIME here and it's blown his mind, he's baffled, he's never seen such a thing.

That seems like a strawman to me, but I guess you guys think CDL is like a child or something and he's doing a decent effort at big boy talk. Grading on a curve, I can understand.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
A guy whose insulin gofundme came up short might be ACTUALLY DEAD, but all our of bravest most logical anti-establishment libertarians are crying about a ****ing guillotine joke. That's what has got tempers high.
But Bezos is $100 billion more valuable to society than this guy they never heard of, it is logical for them to be so much more concerned about Bezos. Never heard of him for good reason I might add, he didn’t build a big, beautiful company like Bezos. Stop being so emotional, we need Bezos in our life and should all be concerned with his well-being.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 08:58 AM
There's nothing special about Bezos, if it hadn't been him and Amazon some other sociopath would've built the world's biggest online retailer. The economics of the industry aren't going to change so it would've happened anyway, with or without him.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 09:15 AM
Im kinda getting sick of the term income inequality btw. Think that term benefits the wealthy even more than it should.

We should really be mad about Wealth Inequality.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Also boy howdy our ombudsman logical fallacy spotter types are scoring this one for CDL because of how he's making such incredibly good points about nonsense hypothetical to equalize wealth that nobody but him is saying. Because he, in 2018, has apparently encountered criticism of income inequality FOR THE FIRST TIME here and it's blown his mind, he's baffled, he's never seen such a thing.

That seems like a strawman to me, but I guess you guys think CDL is like a child or something and he's doing a decent effort at big boy talk. Grading on a curve, I can understand.
Your whole appearance last night was a giant strawman. And you keep doing it in the post before the one quoted here about some guys insulin. CDL has said for multiple times now that he favors single payer, but go ahead and tell everyone what he really believes, smartass.

Want to improve people living in poverty by raising taxes, single payer healthcare for all and cutting military spending? **** you, because the cool thing to believe now is beheading CEOs in the name of income inequality.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 09:25 AM
It's a dilemma. Do you want the money to stay with the billionaires or go to the federal government? Neither option is good.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
Corp taxes need to be low enough to avoid companies hiding all their money abroad. Or at least have laws were they can’t avoid taxes if they operate in this country by hiding profits abroad that they make here. The biggest issue with the current rates are we have huge firms like GE off shoring all their profits and not paying a nickel while likely getting huge benefits from the gov. We want great companies in the us, paying their fair share but that isn’t going to happen with some of the highest corporate income taxes in the world.





These are obviously old numbers but despite the highest tax rates for corporations in the developed world, our government didn’t collect that much. I’m not sure if the new plan will fix all the holes but the current system helped all big corps hide money.
"Low enough", if you want to accomplish what you propose, will likely have to mean "lowest in the world" or multinational corporations will just shift it to where it's cheapest.
Sending money to lower-taxed jurisdictions is happening even in countries with reasonably low corporation tax rates.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-02-2018 , 09:33 AM
Whole lotta people itt taking hyperbole literally.

I thought some of those posts concerned about Bezos were levels initially.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote

      
m