btw if Jonny Flynn has another year like last year and then never plays again in the NBA, he might just be the worst NBA player of all time. Pretty funny considering Minnesota drafted him over Curry, undrafted, undrafted, and Lawson and they had just picked a PG with the pick before. I mean, there were even four late 1st round PGs that all turned out to be solid....other than Flynn its a really good PG class! That Minnesota team would be pretty sick right now with Curry + Love + a few young pieces.

aejones you're up

Assani, would you mind informing him it's his turn? He was here a moment ago

I PM'd him.

Sorry for my ignorance, but please enlighten me on this APM / Sample rating stuff.

Hard for me to believe our PG/SG are negative in all areas while that POS PF we got is putting up pluses.

Way too often people lump "bad" players in together and ignore that there are severe degrees of 'bad.' The Wizards starting PF/C duo, for example, definitely isn't good, but they were solid. And their backup PF/SF that they got for Arenas actually was good for them. The Wizards chucker SG actually became a reasonable scoring option and may go on to be a decent 6th man on a better team this year.

Player	Primary Position	PER	counterpart PER
Undrafted #1	C	18.4	17.7
Undrafted #2	PF	16.4	19.1
Undrafted #3	SF	15.5	11.8
Undrafted #4	SG	14.5	10.1

Contrast that to the Timberwolves. There were times during the season that this was thought to be their "best"(or at least "future best" with "the most upside") lineup:


Jonny Flynn
Wayne Ellington
Michael Beasley
Kevin Love
Darko
6th man: Wesley Johnson

Player	Primary Position	PER	counterpart PER
Jonny Flynn	PG	6.7	17.4
Wayne Ellington	SG	8.9	16.9
Michael Beasley	SF	13.1	19.1
Darko Milicic	C	12.4	17.0
Wesley Johnson	SG	9.6	14.3

Kevin Love btw:

Played 47% of their PF minutes. Put up a 24.2 PER, allowed a 16.0 PER.
Played 18% of their C minutes. Put up a 29.8 PER, allowed a 12.4 PER.



You guys can call 'confirmation bias' as much as you'd like, but at least I'm attempting to quantify my thoughts with data and adjust them when need be. You guys have these intuitions that "no way could Love's supporting cast be that much worse than John Wall's" and you just want to stick with them no matter what.

Note: Love's supporting cast is so bad that I didn't bother to label them as "undrafted". Nobody should want to draft any of these guys imo.

really important for me to get someone who can play alongside dirk, this is a great fit imo and i think there's a pretty big dropoff after this:

pick coming soon

nice pick aaron

With the #53th pick, team TOP Value drafts..


team TOP Value



PG: CP3
SG:
SF:
PF:
C: Marcin Gortat

Gortat is gonna style all over the 11-12 season, this is a fact

i counted that as ~the 10th center taken, i believe i counted pau/nene/horford/duncan as half centers, but i counted pretty quickly

edit: maybe thats 11 or so? and 12 pfs? so, about half bigs through the first 50 picks

edit2: 9 pgs, so by far the least wings i guess

Beasley and Darko legit undrafteds assuming bench players are drafted in this draft. Come on.

Simple Rating can be found and explained at 82games.com.

Here was the top 20 in simple rating last year:

1. Dwight +15.8
2. Lebron +15.7
3. Wade +13.0
4. KG +11.5
5. Ginobili +11.3
6. Dirk +11.2
7. Pierce +11.1
8. Nash +10.8
9. CP3 +10.5
10. Kobe +10.1
11. Duncan +9.8
12. P Gasol +9.7
13. Aldridge +9.6
14. Durant +9.5
15. Love +9.0
16. ZBo +8.2
17. Rose +7.9
18. Bosh +7.7
19. Iguodala +7.2
20. K martin +7.1



APM can be found at basketballvalue.com. There are several articles on 82games.com explaining it. Heres one: http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm

Heres the top 20 in 2yr APM:

1. Dirk +11.51
2. Lebron +10.79
3. Durant +10.76
4. CP3 +9.38
5. undrafted +8.11
6. Wade +6.38
7. Deng +6.19
8. Dwight +5.9
9. Nene +5.77
10. undrafted +4.97
11. Ginobili +4.95
12. G Wallace +4.87
13. Duncan +4.57
14. undrafted +4.32
15. R Allen +4.29
16. Aldridge +4.28
17. P Gasol +3.5
18. J Smith +3.14
19. undrafted +3.14
20. KG +2.93

They drafted Lawson too, and gave him away to Denver. Lol Khan.

I personally think Wesley Johnson should go before either of those two, but its not a big deal really. As Victor said earlier:



We all know enough NBA that nobody is forgetting about any of these players. Moreover its kinda silly to even say 'undrafted' since, for example, everyone knows I was talking about McGee, Blatche, Lewis, and Young for the Wizards.

Like Victor said, this is more of a common sense rule than anything. Naming players to advance an argument is fine; Altering anyone's future picks by suggesting players that should go soon is not fine.

I PM'ed wesrwood to tell him he had been skipped and BJL to let him know he's on the clock

Thanks assani.

Stylin

Gortat most overrated player on 2p2

According to this draft, this award definately goes to Pau Gasol

wasnt exactly who i was looking to take but i guess ill get alot of rebounds now...the big man list starts looking pretty damn ugly...f defense

kobe tho

loldraft gonna lol