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12-10-2011 , 03:39 PM
btw if Jonny Flynn has another year like last year and then never plays again in the NBA, he might just be the worst NBA player of all time. Pretty funny considering Minnesota drafted him over Curry, undrafted, undrafted, and Lawson and they had just picked a PG with the pick before. I mean, there were even four late 1st round PGs that all turned out to be solid....other than Flynn its a really good PG class! That Minnesota team would be pretty sick right now with Curry + Love + a few young pieces.
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12-10-2011 , 03:42 PM
aejones you're up
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12-10-2011 , 03:50 PM
Assani, would you mind informing him it's his turn? He was here a moment ago
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12-10-2011 , 03:55 PM
I PM'd him.
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12-10-2011 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
I said that statistically he was one of the 5 worst most harmful players last year. If you disagree then stop LOLing and refute it.

Surely, you'd agree that the 23-59 Wizards weren't a good team, right? Who do you think was mostly responsible for that? Taking a look at their starting lineup, at PG, SG, PF, and C they kept the same starter throughout the year(barring injury).

Their starting PG was Wall. As I pointed out above he put up a -5.67 2yr APM, -9.25 1 yr APM, and a -2.8 simple rating.

Their starting SG put up a -1.21 2yr APM, a -5.26 1yr APM, and a +1.9 simple rating.

Their starting PF put up a +1.33 2yr APM, a +5.96 1yr APM, and a +1.4 simple rating.

Their starting C put up a +1.56 2 yr APM, a +7.42 1yr APM, and a +2.7 simple rating.

As I said, they didn't have a set starting SF, but one guy did lead the team with 23 starts at SF. He put up a -2.43 2yr APM, a -0.05 1 yr APM, and a -0.3 simple rating.


According to APM and simple rating, they had 2 reasonable bench players. One put up a +2.17 2 yr APM, a +1.46 1 yr APM, and a +0.8 simple rating. The other put up a +1.47 2yr APM, a +3.89 1yr APM, and a -1.5 simple rating.


The Reasons why the Wizards were so bad last year imo:

1. John Wall
2. bad depth
3. injuries

#2 and #3 are kinda a combo. Wall was the main reason by far.
Sorry for my ignorance, but please enlighten me on this APM / Sample rating stuff.

Hard for me to believe our PG/SG are negative in all areas while that POS PF we got is putting up pluses.
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12-10-2011 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmayB
There is nothing that I agree with in this entire post. No way was the TWolves cast THAT much worse than the Wiz or Cavs.


Way too often people lump "bad" players in together and ignore that there are severe degrees of 'bad.' The Wizards starting PF/C duo, for example, definitely isn't good, but they were solid. And their backup PF/SF that they got for Arenas actually was good for them. The Wizards chucker SG actually became a reasonable scoring option and may go on to be a decent 6th man on a better team this year.

PlayerPrimary PositionPERcounterpart PER
Undrafted #1C18.417.7
Undrafted #2PF16.419.1
Undrafted #3SF15.511.8
Undrafted #4SG14.510.1


Contrast that to the Timberwolves. There were times during the season that this was thought to be their "best"(or at least "future best" with "the most upside") lineup:


Jonny Flynn
Wayne Ellington
Michael Beasley
Kevin Love
Darko
6th man: Wesley Johnson

PlayerPrimary PositionPERcounterpart PER
Jonny FlynnPG6.717.4
Wayne EllingtonSG8.916.9
Michael BeasleySF13.119.1
Darko MilicicC12.417.0
Wesley JohnsonSG9.614.3


Kevin Love btw:

Played 47% of their PF minutes. Put up a 24.2 PER, allowed a 16.0 PER.
Played 18% of their C minutes. Put up a 29.8 PER, allowed a 12.4 PER.



You guys can call 'confirmation bias' as much as you'd like, but at least I'm attempting to quantify my thoughts with data and adjust them when need be. You guys have these intuitions that "no way could Love's supporting cast be that much worse than John Wall's" and you just want to stick with them no matter what.
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12-10-2011 , 03:59 PM
Note: Love's supporting cast is so bad that I didn't bother to label them as "undrafted". Nobody should want to draft any of these guys imo.
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12-10-2011 , 03:59 PM
really important for me to get someone who can play alongside dirk, this is a great fit imo and i think there's a pretty big dropoff after this:

Spoiler:


Spoiler:
dirk
okafor
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12-10-2011 , 04:05 PM
pick coming soon
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12-10-2011 , 04:07 PM
nice pick aaron
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12-10-2011 , 04:08 PM
With the #53th pick, team TOP Value drafts..

Spoiler:


He's a stud.
He's the best center available.

but most importantly..

He's about to have a bit late-blooming breakthru year.

While at Orlando Marcin was known as a very reliable defensive big with shortcomings on offence. He kept insisting that given a bigger role (or a chance to play a bit and GET better while doing so) he'd be way more useful on O, which turned out to be totally true. The moment he got the minutes he craved so badly he proved he's quite an offensive threat, especially with an elite p'n'roller on his side. So, yeah.

Gortat as a Sun:
18.8 PER
.598 TS%
15.8 points per 36min (13ppg)
11.3 rebounds per 36min (10rpg)


He's hard-working and ambitious.
He trains with Hakeem.
He looks cool.

He'll protect the rim.
He'll rebound.
He'll be good in transition (he runs well!) and won't slow down the CP3-powered offense.



team TOP Value



PG: CP3
SG:
SF:
PF:
C: Marcin Gortat
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12-10-2011 , 04:12 PM
Gortat is gonna style all over the 11-12 season, this is a fact
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12-10-2011 , 04:14 PM
i counted that as ~the 10th center taken, i believe i counted pau/nene/horford/duncan as half centers, but i counted pretty quickly

edit: maybe thats 11 or so? and 12 pfs? so, about half bigs through the first 50 picks

edit2: 9 pgs, so by far the least wings i guess
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12-10-2011 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
Note: Love's supporting cast is so bad that I didn't bother to label them as "undrafted". Nobody should want to draft any of these guys imo.
Beasley and Darko legit undrafteds assuming bench players are drafted in this draft. Come on.
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12-10-2011 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmthawk64
Sorry for my ignorance, but please enlighten me on this APM / Sample rating stuff.

Hard for me to believe our PG/SG are negative in all areas while that POS PF we got is putting up pluses.
Simple Rating can be found and explained at 82games.com.

Quote:
The main components of the 'Simple Ratings' are a production measure (a variant of John Hollinger's PER rating) for a player's own stats versus the counterpart player on the other team while he is on the court, as well as a simple on court/off court plus minus. This rating is actually more of a placeholder until the more sophisticated analysis we produce is made public, but still offers a good fast read on player performance.
Here was the top 20 in simple rating last year:

1. Dwight +15.8
2. Lebron +15.7
3. Wade +13.0
4. KG +11.5
5. Ginobili +11.3
6. Dirk +11.2
7. Pierce +11.1
8. Nash +10.8
9. CP3 +10.5
10. Kobe +10.1
11. Duncan +9.8
12. P Gasol +9.7
13. Aldridge +9.6
14. Durant +9.5
15. Love +9.0
16. ZBo +8.2
17. Rose +7.9
18. Bosh +7.7
19. Iguodala +7.2
20. K martin +7.1



APM can be found at basketballvalue.com. There are several articles on 82games.com explaining it. Heres one: http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm

Heres the top 20 in 2yr APM:

1. Dirk +11.51
2. Lebron +10.79
3. Durant +10.76
4. CP3 +9.38
5. undrafted +8.11
6. Wade +6.38
7. Deng +6.19
8. Dwight +5.9
9. Nene +5.77
10. undrafted +4.97
11. Ginobili +4.95
12. G Wallace +4.87
13. Duncan +4.57
14. undrafted +4.32
15. R Allen +4.29
16. Aldridge +4.28
17. P Gasol +3.5
18. J Smith +3.14
19. undrafted +3.14
20. KG +2.93
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12-10-2011 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
btw if Jonny Flynn has another year like last year and then never plays again in the NBA, he might just be the worst NBA player of all time. Pretty funny considering Minnesota drafted him over Curry, undrafted, undrafted, and Lawson and they had just picked a PG with the pick before. I mean, there were even four late 1st round PGs that all turned out to be solid....other than Flynn its a really good PG class! That Minnesota team would be pretty sick right now with Curry + Love + a few young pieces.
They drafted Lawson too, and gave him away to Denver. Lol Khan.
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12-10-2011 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmthawk64
Beasley and Darko legit undrafteds assuming bench players are drafted in this draft. Come on.
I personally think Wesley Johnson should go before either of those two, but its not a big deal really. As Victor said earlier:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
naming scrub undrafteds that wont get taken for 5 rounds is whatever fine. saying, zomg cant believe this guy hasnt been taken brings down the drat.

We all know enough NBA that nobody is forgetting about any of these players. Moreover its kinda silly to even say 'undrafted' since, for example, everyone knows I was talking about McGee, Blatche, Lewis, and Young for the Wizards.

Like Victor said, this is more of a common sense rule than anything. Naming players to advance an argument is fine; Altering anyone's future picks by suggesting players that should go soon is not fine.
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12-10-2011 , 04:27 PM
I PM'ed wesrwood to tell him he had been skipped and BJL to let him know he's on the clock
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12-10-2011 , 04:29 PM
Thanks assani.
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12-10-2011 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
Simple Rating can be found and explained at 82games.com.



Here was the top 20 in simple rating last year:

1. Dwight +15.8
2. Lebron +15.7
3. Wade +13.0
4. KG +11.5
5. Ginobili +11.3
6. Dirk +11.2
7. Pierce +11.1
8. Nash +10.8
9. CP3 +10.5
10. Kobe +10.1
11. Duncan +9.8
12. P Gasol +9.7
13. Aldridge +9.6
14. Durant +9.5
15. Love +9.0
16. ZBo +8.2
17. Rose +7.9
18. Bosh +7.7
19. Iguodala +7.2
20. K martin +7.1


Stylin
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12-10-2011 , 04:33 PM
Gortat most overrated player on 2p2
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12-10-2011 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isura
Gortat most overrated player on 2p2
According to this draft, this award definately goes to Pau Gasol
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12-10-2011 , 04:35 PM
wasnt exactly who i was looking to take but i guess ill get alot of rebounds now...the big man list starts looking pretty damn ugly...f defense

Spoiler:


Spoiler:
pau
al jefferson
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12-10-2011 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar0
According to this draft, this award definately goes to Pau Gasol
kobe tho
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12-10-2011 , 04:38 PM
loldraft gonna lol
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