0-1 in legit Super Bowls. Manning is 1-2.

Manning>Brady

Bump for end of Manning's year (career?)

I'm sure many people will point to how bad the Colts are without Manning and then look at how well the Pats did a few years ago without Brady, but remember how bad the Pats looked in 2001 before Brady took over(0-2, double digit underdogs in week 3, picked by many to be worst team in NFL).

I think theres a legit argument that they are the 2 GOAT football players.

0-2 with an 6 point loss and a 7 point loss.

somehow the Pats seemed better prepared when Brady went down, kind of crazy considering it happened in a flash Week 1 and Peyton had his surgery months before. backup QB seems like a position that Polian completely effed up - there wasn't a single guy on the roster he wanted to see play.

also the 2008 Pats were coming off a 18-1 season and were SB favs, while 2011 Colts were much more back in the pack of good but not elite teams

and of course 2008 Pats played one of the easiest schedules in the league and in reality didn't end up being much better than average...which is probably close to where the Colts will end up when all is said and done.

If you want to use the "look at how their teams did without them" argument I suggest you wait a full season rather than look at yesterday's single game sample and say "zomg Colts are going to lose 40-0 every game without Peyton."

There's an active QB who averages 400+ yards per game. He should be in this discussion, no?

It's not crazy, they have the GOAT coach. And that's also why Manning > Brady.

I don't necessarily think Manning > Brady, but I'd say 2001 Brady meant far less to the pats than 2011 Manning means to the colts. I'm not 100 % a healthy Bledsoe would have been worse.

Have you completely forgotten the Patriots winning the AFC Championship game on the road without Tom Brady?

Caldwell starting to seem like one of the worst HCs of the last 20 years. Like Ray Handley bad.

He's not the HC

I want to say Caldwell is there to satisfy the Rooney Rule but Dungy already did that. No idea what Caldwell is there for.

So how long 'til the answer to this question is "Cam Newton"?

Colts O/U for a full season without manning is probably 4.5 and that might be generous, since they were only 9.5 with him

4.5 lol no way. the Panthers were the lowest in the league this year at 4.5. there is no way the Colts are Peyton Manning + the worst team in the NFL

Are betting lines for horrible teams going to be higher than actual probabilities?

Don't results at both ends of the spectrum end up being beyond the highest and lowest bet lines?

I'm asking this as a dude who never bets sports. But doesn't money coming in affect the odds to an extent? Like, the odds aren't solely based on team ability?

He's on pace for the league's first 6,700 yard season. That's as a rookie. Clearly, he'll have 7,000 yards next year.

I don't know much, but my understanding is essentially that yes money coming in affects the odds (and typically the oddsmakers prefer equalish action on either side). however, there is so much money wagered that it becomes something close to a wisdom of crowds effect. and it's extremely difficult for any 1 person to be smarter than the crowd as a whole. this is particularly true for in season betting lines, as the crowd acquires more and more info it becomes harder to beat. so the betting line, at the same time, is what the money says and is a good actual indicator of talent

short story: if the betting market says the Panthers are even money to win 4.5 games, that's probably better than whatever prediction you can come up with, and is actually a good indicator of overall team strength. the crowd is hard to beat.

well there is little doubt that manning is one of the best regular season QBs of all time that's for sure

Also what does everyone think Brady has to do in order to pass Montana as the GOAT? For me i'd say bare min 3-4 moar ultraelite seasons with at least 1 moar really great poastseason ending in a super bowl championship and even then i'm not sure it would be enough.

stop chocking in the playoffs

Some act of heroism or other media-loving moment, winning SB while playing injured or running for the winning TD etc.

supine i'm not talking about in the eyes of the media, i'm talking about actuality

this is an obvious troll and i'm tempted to report this poast but winning 3 titles in 10 years is clearly not choking and is far better than almost any QB in nfl history has done