Are you really planning on using one of your roster spots on a goalline only RB though?

Also realize that the fact that he didn't come out in goalline and 3rd and short situations hurt his ypc.

I think he was the best available due to his all around game, but I can certainly respect your view if you disagree.

i love how assani has gotten 2 people from dancing with the stars

Just wanted to point out one thing in response to a comment somebody made about O-linemen beginning to figure out Freeney recently. I don't think that really applies here because we're using players at a specific age and point in time. For instance Anthony Munoz and and Tony Boselli haven't "figured out" Freeney because they never played against him. You could only use that argument for players who were taken at say 2006 or after (and ideally who had actually played against him).

do you really think that dallas oline was better then the denver oline? I cant mention the string of RBs shanahan's teams have poured out, but it seems each rb is better then the next. until they go to another team, that is!

yeah, when i said someone was def better then sharpe, i thought of marvin. can someone convince me otherwise? imo given sharpe was picked several spots earlier, i think epi got a (MINOR) steal here.

He's prob pissed Jason Taylor already went, he was gonna try to land Emmitt in round 3 and beat us all in a dance-off

i agree, although if marvin was with another qb (like brady) he would still be a HOFer

Assani beat me to it, but I think we are undervaluing the importance of having a back that can do it all. With someone like Emmitt, you won't need a 3rd down, goal line, or passing situational back. With someone like Barry you most certainly do.

And with regards to YPC, I've always thought that was a very misleading stat in football. When rushing, consistency is going to be paramount because one of the keys to having an effective running game will be a lack of variance. Guys like Sanders were never good at that, and would put their quarterbacks in too many difficult situations.

I wish their was a definitive stat that measured variance in rushing attempts. I'd be willing to bet that you'd see the "lower variance, lower YPC" guys winning a lot more games than guys who broke one after putting his QB in several 3rd and 10's..

fwiw this is something that should be considered, we should be able to pick our home location. i probably will be playing in a super cold weather spot, whether it be chicago, buffalo, whatever. BRING ON THE SNOW

I thought we could add as many players as we wanted after the draft from a waiver wire of sorts. Even if we can't, I think we have to assume that we'd have some sort of generic backups, it makes no sense to have some players values hurt because we limit our roster to 25 players instead of the actual 52 man NFL roster.

Anyways, my point is that even if he is the best available, it isn't by nearly enough to warrant taking him in the second round. Really, I only think Faulk and maybe Sanders should have gone in the first few rounds, you will always be able to find a decent running back.

awesome, awesome seadood

going to say epi: you're not going to win an argument (in my mind) saying Marvin will go across the middle on your team. i also dont understand why you WANT him going across the middle. the point is he has great hands, great speed, and almost unprecedented route running. let him do his thing.

the "kinda" is "kinda" important :P

ive seen several calcs about adding tds (in these situations) as a way of "adding yards" to estimate actual ypc (of goal-line backs for example) and even doing this generously likely would only add .1 or .2 ypc to him.

I think we actually agree on importance of RBs but disagree on Emmitt's ranking among RBs. I have Emmitt ranked ahead of Barry, and since you can see Barry being taken already then it makes sense that I would've taken Emmitt since I have him ahead of Barry.

You're probably right...still a minor plus though.

agree with this. was under the impression we could have atleast replacement level players filling the other slots. hell, i wouldn't mind having a PR, K, P, etc.

also, i too think faulk and sanders (in my rankings anyway) were deserved 1st rounders. just goes to show how much of a reach LT2 was.

Yes although it's close. I mean that Cowboys oline was just so stacked.

yea this

fwiw I don't/nor am saying Marvin is always or even the majority of the time going to be going over the middle, just that he can to keep the defense honest and that hes def a lot better than Moss at going over the middle.

I'm goin to bed, but I'm pretty sure we narrowed it down, so if it's up to me when I get up I'll have it before long

I still havn't seen anyone actually back this up though. Are any of us here great at evaluating o-lines? Probably not(maybe Needle, I dunno)...so why are we acting as if we know for sure how good they are???

Do you all not agree that many times in sports there exists a popular opinion held by the masses when in reality its not necessarily true?

I cannot evaluate o-lines, so I can't say for sure. However, I do know:

1. The Cowboys greatly struggled in the 4 games without Emmitt scoring a total of 46 points in those 4 games
2. Troy Aikman took his fair share of sacks, and while pass blocking doesn't always equal rush blocking, it is often true that a great run blocker will be great at pass blocking and vise versa.
3. Emmitt was a complete stud at other facets of the game, so I'd be led to believe that he'd be a stud at the rushing aspect as well
4. Emmitt's numbers are ridiculously good



Now I raise the question once again: Is it not possible that Emmitt made that o-line look better than they really were?

I'm not even really arguing that its true; I'm just arguing that its a distinct possibility that everyone seems to want to ignore simply because its conventional wisdom, and I find that very foolish.

Of course Emmit made the oline look better than they were, just like any elite player makes the rest of the players playing with him look better than they are.

Regardless all 5 of the Cowboys oline (actually 6 cause they had 2 centers during the time) had multiple probowl appearances, plus they had Larry Allen who is easily considered the best guard in this draft. They had no weakness on the oline and were all beasts and all among the top of their position.

EDIT: And I have never even heard of Smith's backups before in Lassic and Coleman (and I followed football in the 90's)

EDIT2: These backups were even worse than I thought, Lassic was in the NFL for only 1 year and Coleman was a FB who was in the NFL for only 2 years

Ok, going to comment on the picks. who knows if this is wanted or anything, but we had a bunch of picks (very exciting! in a way this was good of franchise!) so things dont get glossed over:

Troy Aikman: Aikman is a guy who I always felt the common fan greatly, vastly, immensely overrated. The facts are he played with great players nearly his entire career, especially his o-line. He didn't get sacked much (he was NEVER mobile, yet somehow has a career 5.21% - only 1 year did he rush for more than 172 yards) and yet got hurt every now and then. (Concussions, right??) I also thought he was a pretty boy (compared to gamers like Favre, Elway, Montana, etc.) and basically because of his team's success (which became his success) he was linked as a great QB. I know people here aren't saying he's on that tier (he's not) but for a pocket passer his career 81.6 qbr is solid but not overwhelming (37th all time, behind a bunch of guys still available here); his peak was just 2 seasons above 90 (only 1 extraordinary season of 99 as a 27yr old); and he never had to carry his team, as he always had Emmit/strong RB game to fall back on.

That said, he's a GREAT leader, and obviously a SOLID QB, I just thought he'd go after a few more QBs that I feel are frankly better. So, IMO this is a minor reach. FWIW, I always hated the Cowboys.

Dent/Williams: I commented on them, sorta.

Emmit Smith: As others have said, he typically is overvalued since he was more of a durable reliable player then a peak performer. I also think there are several better RBs both in this format and overall available.

Assani mentions Emmit could do it all, which makes him a valuable pick, but again my understanding (which may need to be corrected) is after the 22nd round we could fill in ANY player to our last few positions. This is why I thought Faulk and Sanders were far and away the #1 and 2 RBs; Faulk was an elite receiver in addition to his running ability, and Sanders is the best side to side runner ever. (FWIW I always used to pickup Sanders off FA wires in NFL2k, and pound the ball with him 100% of the time, he was dominant) Emmit just seems... Above average at everything. Nothing really sticks out.

AF says he was a great RB blocker, and obviously I'm not knowledgeable of this nor are there stats to quantify this. What I do know though is I want my RB to run primarily, and I can find other people to block. So when there are better alternates available, I would take them...

I suppose the main thing that cries out to me is that Emmit only cracked top 5 in ypc twice in his career; 1993 @ 5.3 (his best year IMO, this was his holdout year so his raw stats aren't as impressive as the year before) and 1995 (4th overall). Contrast this with a guy like Faulk, who 3 separate years LED the NFL in ypc. Barry Sanders was top 5 6 times throughout his career (leading NFL once) and never had the line nor passing game that Emmit had.

I will say Emmit was a SOLID receiver, but nothing special. he averaged 40 rec a year which is v nice, but again, nothing special. Maybe that sums him up to me? A guy who did everything well, but nothing elite, and in a draft like this, I'd rather grab elite talent in the 2nd round.

*I do want to say, overall, I don't think this was a BAD pick. Same with Troy. Just that both have amazing reputations to the common fan, and were slight reaches in this draft.

Kevin Greene: I guess my main Q (since I never saw him play - I started watching football the year he retired) is why did he switch teams 5 times? Especially as it seems between all this sandwiching he made pro bowls. Judging by the stats, it looks like what he can do (pass rush) he did very well. Again, wish I knew more, but 5 pro bowls and 2 1st team all-pro and 3rd all time sacks works for me. I will pass on my opinion on this one due to lack of knowledge.

Marvin Harrison: I mentioned this briefly, but I feel Epi got a mini steal. When I doubted the Sterline Sharpe pick, it was solely because I felt Harrison was the no-brainer 3rd best WR available. (Sharpe may be better then CC though, not sure!) The saddest thing I suppose about Marvin is that his career has coincided with Moss's career. He's been overshadowed since Moss is better - flatout, no argument, fair and simple - and so Marvin has never really had the "best WR in the league" title. 1 thing that is v cool is Marvin's 3 1st-team all-pro came at ages 27, 30, and 34 - (and pro bowls all years in between) so clearly there were merits to putting him up there at any age.

Marvin is a "winner," he's 5th all time rec. TDs, he's been very durable, had 8 years of 1k rec yards straight, etc etc. I can't say anymore here without regurgitating information.

Dwight Freeney: Other people said he may be "figured out," since his sacks have dramatically decreased from 2006+. But that shouldn't be a problem here, as alot of guys haven't played vs him in our league, and with a 1 year sample he probably will still be young. I do think there were better DEs available, but that doesn't make him a bad pick. Just perhaps not optimizing value. Oh well!

"2. Troy Aikman took his fair share of sacks, and while pass blocking doesn't always equal rush blocking, it is often true that a great run blocker will be great at pass blocking and vise versa."

for the record, Aikman during the "america's team" run (92-96), had sack % of 4.64 (5th best), 3.73 (6 best), 3.14 (2nd best) 3.73 (2nd best), 2.78 (best), etc. All this despite NEVER being a mobile QB in the SLIGHTEST. so... actually, his line was v v good at pass blocking.

Also saw this which I missed the first time, if this is true then yea that hurts ur point even more than the no name backups Assani.