I really like both randle and green. Green was the guy i was heavily considering instead of thomas. not sure i agree randle > sapp, but its fairly negligible. well done

John Randle was the one guy I considered over Sapp. In the end, it came down to stuffing the run and size. The only knock on JR is that you are pretty much forced to run a 4-3 with a meaty second DT. Otherwise the dude was awesome.

Those MIN defenses were nuts, they didn't even play the run like teams do today. It was pretty much head upfield and tackle anyone that got in your way.

I'm kinda surprised that my team is OT/CB after two picks.

if its allowed, sure

Darrell Green, most seasons w/one team

There are two corners that probably should get in the HOF, I don't think it will happen though. The NFL HOF is too exclusive and defensive backs are among the least represented. By great players I wasn't talking about that level. To get into the HOF as a db you have to play like 12+ years, be an all pro 7+ times, win superbowls, return kicks at an elite level, etc. The standards are too high.

Um, shoot, can't edit anymore. Sorry, just C/P'ed that.

Exactly there are a lot of solid corners but not many elite ones, honestly most of the elite DBs have already been taken especially the ones with a long time spent in the league. I'm not a huge fan of picking a CB early in this type of league but I can see justifying the 4 guys who were selected although I think Bailey went way too high.

No prob. People have been pretty sloppy about it so far, though, and we're getting to the point where it actually matters.

Edit: re: battschr, naming undrafted players, &c.

they put in 5-7 people each year, baseball is way more exclusive with 0-3 a year

There are a lot more players, though.

And a disproportionate # of HoFers are at the easily quantified offensive positions (QB/WR/RB)

5-7 people but there are 22 starters and 4 or so special teams players vs 8 starting baseman + pitchers. Really there are some big suprises in the HOF, and there are some guys who had a ton of records that took forever to get in. QBs are way overrepresented and DBs, LBers, O-line and D-line underrepresented.

QFT, the 5th best QB/RR of any generation will at least be considered for the hall. For most other positions you had to be THE BEST for at least 5 years.

Alright. You're asking for a good argument, and I'll try to provide one...



As I told Needle, I hate the concept of picking players to fit into a scheme or to fit into your team this early. Sure I'd advise doing that in the mid/late rounds when each draft pick runs close in value. However, there are only so many top tier talents in this draft, so I would advise not thinking at all about scheme or team chemistry just yet and just drafting BPA. Otherwise, you're going to end up with too little talent compared to other teams.


I think this is a common misunderstanding. Now I could be wrong, as its tough for me to get into guys' like Moss' heads. However, I'm pretty sure that when Moss does something stupid(admit he doesn't give 100%, fake moon green bay fans, walk off the field early) he isn't thinking to himself "I wonder who the leaders on my team are. Will they let me get away with this?"

Moss has a history of causing some problems. Now hes certainly not the worst player in the league when it comes to this(and I did like the Moss pick remember!). However, I think you're fighting an uphill battle if you want to claim that you're suddenly going to erase all his problems with one draft pick.


This is where you really start to lose me....

1. McNabb publicly fueded with his only big time WR he ever had
2. McNabb's leadership and toughness have been questioned, particularly in the super bowl loss.
3. McNabb's leadership and clutchess were quesioned in the continued NFC Championship game losses
4. McNabb has frequently been booed by his home towns, and although I'll admit Philly fans can be idiots at times, there are Philly players who don't get booed.


Now let me be clear: I'm not saying that McNabb is necessarily a bad leader or that hes even below average. However for you to go on and on about how McNabb is great at all these things just strikes me as strange. There are plenty of undrafted QBs out there who have a better reputation as a leader(and lets be honest- none of us have ever been in the locker room, so all we're going off of is reputation and history with teamates here).


Again, I totally disagree. Moss's biggest strength is that you can get any QB with a strong arm to just heave it up to him and he can make a play on a ball even if its not accurate at all. In fact, it would seem to me that my pick(Jerry Rice) would benefit from an accurate QB a lot more than Moss. I can think of one QB in particular who Moss had in real life who wasn't very good but had a great arm and he just lobbed it up for Moss and had great success.

If I were you, I would've focused on o-line so that Moss' deep routes have time to develop, and then just get a mediocre QB who can lob it up to him.

Moreoever, as I said earlier, I always thought accuracy was McNabb's biggest weakness, and while I now understand you were specifically talking about the deep ball I still don't think hes in the top tier of this draft in deep ball accuracy.


Agreed here that McNabb is great at running and keeping his eyes downfield. Sometimes I do think he makes the mistake of not taking off with the ball himself though. Furthermore I can think of a few other QBs still available with similar or better rushing ability.

Again, a competant o-line could've bought the QB just as much time for the route to develop in addittion to helping the run game and anchoring the entire team. I can think of a few o-linemen I much rather would've had than McNabb.


Again, much of that is simply not necessary with Moss who you can just throw a wild jump ball to and hope he goes up and gets it. Even still, there will be plenty of QBs available late who can throw an accurate deep ball if you give them an o-line that gives them tons of time to throw and a nice pocket.

Oh come on....if you want to argue that you know it was a reach but it was a good fit, then thats one thing(even though I disagree). However, you simply can't argue that he was a steal. Hell you even said in your first paragraph that there are more accomplished QBs still out there. Which QBs already taken exactly do you think McNabb should've gone over?

fluff

agreed. Always liked McNabb due to this...just not as much as you apparently do.


I understand what you're saying, but I think you far overrate this. I can't name names, but again look at that one great armed QB he had in Minny who wasn't mobile at all. Its not like it takes 10 seconds for Moss to get 40 yards downfield. Just have a decent pass blocking scheme and you can chuck it up to him.

Meh on the Randle pick. He was on my radar for sure, but hes such a one dimensional player. I'd much rather build around complete players in the first few rounds so that your hand isn't forced later on. I feel as if you almost have to take some good run stuffing LBs early on now with Randle on the team.

good pick, love it as a Skins fan too. Very interesting:



Redskins have 2 SB wins in the era we are drafting from(and one right before the era, and many of those players played into our era), yet this is the first one taken. I can't really think of anyone who should've gone higher though, so I'm not complaining...makes you appriciate Gibbs a little more though.

Round 2- Pick 37-Randall McDaniel-Age 30-1994






Simply The best guard to ever play in the NFL (imo of course), He went to an astonishing 12 straight pro bowls (in 3 different decades!) and 7 first team all pro teams. He did his job quietly, and not flashy, but he sure got the job done. He started 202 straight games, from 1990-01. Named by one site as the greatest athlete to wear the number 64 ever, his athleticism revolutionized the guard position. A wise man once said, NFL games are won and lost in the trenches, and thats were i start with Warren Sapp and Randall McDaniel.

Team ZJ123
Warren Sapp
Randall McDaniel

While I did debate the Champ pick with you, I admit that would've been a very cool strategy.

so we have to wait for Needle now or did he say he can pick via his cell?

Theres 2 guys out there I want, might be interested in trading up....wouldn't give up a ton, maybe something similar to the first trade that went down. Let me know if anyone is interested.

"Can return kicks, also. "

Just pointing out that I specifically mentioned that this will not factor in whatsoever.

Yeah, I can think of at least one strong-armed mobile QB who would have been available in another round, maybe two

Even if you don't think he's as good a fit, I still think you could've gotten McNabb without trading up

McNabb is the Chauncey Billups of our league imo

Blah I should have traded down, so much sick value in the past 10 picks.

Dammit, I guess McDaniel wasn't falling. I didn't think he'd go this high, but I like the pick.

I may have to seriously re-evaluate who I can expect to be available at 60.