Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion

03-23-2011 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsman
Tom, how disappointed are you folks over there with Lauderdale? When he came in, I thought he had the capability to be good, but it just seems like he never has performed like he should. I've been underwhelmed with him from the get-go.
I didn't have expectations of him. He does his job well. I'd like to see him play more, but can't figure out who he should be playing instead of. He's pretty valuable on defense and can give an additional inside threat and is pretty consistent down low.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
New topic:

Name your team from players available in each region

WEST

Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Nolan Smith
Kahwi Leonard
Derrick Williams

EAST
Kendall Marshall
Brandon Knight
Harrison Barnes?
Terrence Jones
Jared Sullinger

SOUTHWEST
Derwin Kitchen?
Tyshawn Taylor
Chris Singleton
Marcus Morris
Markieff Morris

SOUTHEAST
Jimmer Freddette
Jordan Taylor
Chandler Parsons
Jon Leuer
Matt Howard


Thoughts:

West is clearly the most talented region left. Not really debatable imo.

Thought long and hard about putting Barnes into the East bc he's a chucker, but he's got more raw talent than the others I was considering.

East has the highest quality big men, with Sully, Jones, Henson, Zeller, Harrelson, Johnson-Odom, etc.

The Southwest is devoid of guards. It's really ****ing thin. Taylor is good, and then...? Josh Selby was hyped, but his numbers suck butt. I thought about putting VCU's Joey Rodriguez because he is their floor general (plays the most minutes and has the most assists), but he's shooting 35% on the year and isn't great defensively. Richmond, meh. FSU's Kitchen is what I came up with.
Are you trying to build a good lineup or just naming the 5 most well-known players?

I don't like the West team much even though you picked the 5 best. Nolan and Kemba and Kyrie all on the court at once? Seems weird on both ends. And D-Will is gonna guard Centers? Or you gonna make Kiwi do that? Takes away a huge part of his skillset (wing D)

I'd move Kiwi to 3 and D-Will to 4. Not a fan of taking people completely out of their position skillsets just to fit other good players on a team. Can be done with more versatile guys, but Nolan can't guard SFs and D-Will can't guard Cs and Kiwi SHOULD guard the best wing
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
I didn't have expectations of him. He does his job well. I'd like to see him play more, but can't figure out who he should be playing instead of. He's pretty valuable on defense and can give an additional inside threat and is pretty consistent down low.
I obviously don't watch every game, but I saw a fair amount of him when I got a chance, or when he plays Purdue, just seemed to me that he should be able to be a dominant force down there and it didn't seem to me that he was.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsman
I obviously don't watch every game, but I saw a fair amount of him when I got a chance, or when he plays Purdue, just seemed to me that he should be able to be a dominant force down there and it didn't seem to me that he was.
It's hard to have him and Sully down low on offense with our style. It becomes too easy to double-team Sully if Dallas is chilling out down low. And no one is going to even bother guarding Dallas outside since his shot beyond 5 feet is pretty bad. If Sullinger wasn't playing (and when he's on the bench), Dallas takes over that role a lot. Sullinger is just a ton better at it, so that takes away from Dallas's minutes. The strategy for Ohio State is very obviously to get Sully the ball down low. If he starts getting double-teamed, he usually kicks it back to the open man for a 3. It's hard to put Dallas in an offense like that. His main benefit is defense, and he's getting 1.5 blocks per game with only 17 minutes per game.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumanjiBoard
Yes but mentioning guys like Bullock who don't play much and sport a nice 46% TS is just ******ed.
obv, idk why he did that
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:32 PM
Where can I read a good analysis of the S-16 games ?
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
how does it not?

And lol the 2 Dukies saying the West by far when it's clearly not the case. Kentucky, UNC and tOSU all have a ton of talent (IE 2-3+ NBA prospects). SDSU, Zona, UConn are both 1 man deep with respect to true "talent" while Duke has a couple. It's clearly not as clear as you two are making it out to be.

Do you want to go by Kenpom?

UNC is #1, UK #8, UNC #12 and Marquette #26 vs #2, #7, #13 and #30? Seem pretty similar. It's not as clear as you 2 are making it out to be.
I was referring to the talent in the top 5, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
Well he says region when clearly I guess he means top 5 team from that region. If I take 1-15 from each region the gap clearly closes. East's 6-10 are clearly better than West's 6-10...and 11-15 is pretty much the same thing.

Both regions have considerably more talent due to how things played out than the Southeast and Midwest Brackets.

If you don't like NBA projections it's clearly visible that UK, tOSU and UNC all have a ton of talent and are more than 1 deep. Zona, UConn have been reliant on 1 player for most of the season. Duke has very deep and there is no disputing that. Not as sure about SDSU but I know they do have some talent.
I think much of this is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo027
Kevin Anderson is the best guard left in the region.

"Richmond, meh." = "I don't know anything about Richmond so I'll just leave them out."
Fair enough, I don't really know anything about Richmond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aejones
this seems fine, though this team is quite undersized



i think terrence jones blows. i really like jae crowder, but he hasn't put up the #s needed. i'd go henson, zellar, or harrelson over jones. the latter two would allow sullinger to move to his more "natural" PF position, and the former would be a good contrast to sully's style. this would be a scary region if you could grab a bench (...all of OSUs starters?).



chris singleton is really only if healthy. and yea, almost everyone else comes from rock chalk. i might throw burgess in here for singleton.



i definitely like shelvin mack > taylor... at literally everything. i'd go
jimmer
mack
parsons
[leuer
macklin
howard
hartsock]

meh, im not sure, you've got a dozen bigs that could make a case for here, including the red head kid that breaks hearts from sconin, but the 1-3 is really good, maybe as good as any region (even nolan smith/kemba/kyrie, although it's a TOTALLY different and much more balanced 1-3).
Singleton definitely is a must for me. Best defensively player in the country. I guess I'm assuming the 100% Singleton.

Why the Terrence Jones and Taylor hate? Also, the bigs from the SE I think should pretty clearly be Leuer and Howard. Leuer, pace adjusted, is having one of the best seasons of anybody in CBB. Howard is underrated, and would play well off the other players imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Are you trying to build a good lineup or just naming the 5 most well-known players?

I don't like the West team much even though you picked the 5 best. Nolan and Kemba and Kyrie all on the court at once? Seems weird on both ends. And D-Will is gonna guard Centers? Or you gonna make Kiwi do that? Takes away a huge part of his skillset (wing D)

I'd move Kiwi to 3 and D-Will to 4. Not a fan of taking people completely out of their position skillsets just to fit other good players on a team. Can be done with more versatile guys, but Nolan can't guard SFs and D-Will can't guard Cs and Kiwi SHOULD guard the best wing
I guess in my head the West team would just be a crazy up-and-down run'n'gun team. I guess you leave off a guard and put Mason Plumlee in there? I dunno. But the objective wasn't completely to build a winning team, there really wasn't a defined objective to be honest. I just threw together some teams hoping to spark some discussion. You're right that the West team is in no way ideal for actually winning games.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Why the Terrence Jones and Taylor hate? Also, the bigs from the SE I think should pretty clearly be Leuer and Howard. Leuer, pace adjusted, is having one of the best seasons of anybody in CBB. Howard is underrated, and would play well off the other players imo.
for his size and skills, terrence jones simply isn't a very efficient offensive player. i don't think he displays good decision making or shot selection.

taylor is good. it's difficult to judge just how good he is, given the "system" wisconsin runs. he got torched by pullen last round, and i watched that game, and he was dreadful. sample size, yadda yadda, but i would take mack over him in pretty much every facet of the game. doesn't mean i dislike him, just means he's a little bit worse than mack at everything.

howard is ofc good and a fine pick, although if you had him and leuer you'd REALLY lack athleticism and shotblocking both weakside and on the ball. you'd sure take a lot of charges though!
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:44 PM
Jordan Taylor has turned into an excellent outside shooter. That's one thing he definitely does better than Mack.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:51 PM
aejones homering it up super hard

Jordan Taylor >>> Mack

Quote:
i definitely like shelvin mack > taylor... at literally everything
hahahaowow.gif

how about shooting
passing
scoring

IIRC doesnt Taylor lead the nation in A/T ratio?
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 02:58 PM
I'm really confused with Josh Selby. He's kind of non-existent in the tournament. It's like Self tried to find a spot or him but couldn't fit him anywhere. Maybe his numbers are better than I am remembering but I just don't remember him having any impact in the first 2 games.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
Uk and tOSU has a bunch as well. It's not really clear that the West bracket has more overall talent since Zona and Uconn are almost 1 man operations.
well when considering only top 5 players from 4 teams that doesnt really hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Are you trying to build a good lineup or just naming the 5 most well-known players?

I don't like the West team much even though you picked the 5 best. Nolan and Kemba and Kyrie all on the court at once? Seems weird on both ends. And D-Will is gonna guard Centers? Or you gonna make Kiwi do that? Takes away a huge part of his skillset (wing D)

I'd move Kiwi to 3 and D-Will to 4. Not a fan of taking people completely out of their position skillsets just to fit other good players on a team. Can be done with more versatile guys, but Nolan can't guard SFs and D-Will can't guard Cs and Kiwi SHOULD guard the best wing
I assumed its an all-region team similar to a first team all american team where you can have all 3 guards be true PG, all 3 SGs, or anything else depending on that specific year.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawks
I'm really confused with Josh Selby. He's kind of non-existent in the tournament. It's like Self tried to find a spot or him but couldn't fit him anywhere. Maybe his numbers are better than I am remembering but I just don't remember him having any impact in the first 2 games.
against BU he had 4 pts, 2 rebs, 2 asts, 2 TO
against Illinois he had 0 pts, 1 reb, 2 asts

selbys not that good but he looked really great in his first couple games this season but since then hes just been a huge nonfactor
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
It's hard to have him and Sully down low on offense with our style. It becomes too easy to double-team Sully if Dallas is chilling out down low. And no one is going to even bother guarding Dallas outside since his shot beyond 5 feet is pretty bad. If Sullinger wasn't playing (and when he's on the bench), Dallas takes over that role a lot. Sullinger is just a ton better at it, so that takes away from Dallas's minutes. The strategy for Ohio State is very obviously to get Sully the ball down low. If he starts getting double-teamed, he usually kicks it back to the open man for a 3. It's hard to put Dallas in an offense like that. His main benefit is defense, and he's getting 1.5 blocks per game with only 17 minutes per game.
This year is far more understandable. Previous couple of years, seems like he could have given them a good inside presence offensively and really didn't, and they could have used it. His shot blocking has been solid, though....
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeDat
against BU he had 4 pts, 2 rebs, 2 asts, 2 TO
against Illinois he had 0 pts, 1 reb, 2 asts

selbys not that good but he looked really great in his first couple games this season but since then hes just been a huge nonfactor
I think Selby is good, not great, but he hasn't played at all, or at least that I can remember. It would be one thing if he was getting a lot of minutes and but he's not even in the regular rotation.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
Jordan Taylor has turned into an excellent outside shooter. That's one thing he definitely does better than Mack.
taylor is a good shooter. he is also a much different kind of shooter and has gotten much different kinds of shots than mack has this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charder30
aejones homering it up super hard

Jordan Taylor >>> Mack



hahahaowow.gif

how about shooting
passing
scoring

IIRC doesnt Taylor lead the nation in A/T ratio?
afaik taylor is a pg and mack is not.

mack is a better shooter and scorer than taylor.

hahahaowow charder with some excellent basketball analysis as usually. i guess we'll get to find out how much b10 and butler i've watched real soon!
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aejones
mack is a better shooter and scorer than taylor.
show your work
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:30 PM
Taylor scores more on better efficiency while playing against better competition, while leading the nation in A/T ratio!
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
Jordan Taylor has turned into an excellent outside shooter. That's one thing he definitely does better than Mack.
yeah, among many others
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:33 PM
Taylor takes 27 percent of Wisky's shots, Mack takes 29%. Taylor has a 58% TS%, Mack has a 53% TS%. Taylor assists on 30% of made baskets, Mack 25%. The big huge difference is that Taylor is an absurd outlier when it comes to turning the ball over, he's the only player in kenpom's top 100 for both assist percentage and turnover percentage, and he's 2nd in the country in not turning the ball over. That's ridiculous for a point guard, I can't think of a single one who has ever even come close. Factor in that Taylor has done all of this against Big 10 defenses and not Horizon League defenses, and it's not close, Taylor>>>>>Mack.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:35 PM
I think aejones is just underrating Taylor (probably like the whole country has) I think his main point is Mack can create better for himself, which I agree with

Mack is a good player but Taylor has killed it this year, as a distributor AND a scorer
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:36 PM
good ninja PG gonna run a team of whitey on wisconsin once again
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd
Taylor takes 27 percent of Wisky's shots, Mack takes 29%. Taylor has a 58% TS%, Mack has a 53% TS%. Taylor assists on 30% of made baskets, Mack 25%. The big huge difference is that Taylor is an absurd outlier when it comes to turning the ball over, he's the only player in kenpom's top 100 for both assist percentage and turnover percentage, and he's 2nd in the country in not turning the ball over. That's ridiculous for a point guard, I can't think of a single one who has ever even come close. Factor in that Taylor has done all of this against Big 10 defenses and not Horizon League defenses, and it's not close, Taylor>>>>>Mack.
People harping way too much on his A/T and TOV%. There's never been a Wisconsin team I remember that wasn't top 20ish in overall TOV. (I'm sure it's happened but it's not the norm) That's the system they run. They don't get in transition or fast-paced situations ever. That's where a ton of turnovers happen in basketball. They run a slow-down half court offense where is first pass is always a planned and easy one. And they don't gamble for turnovers period. I agree Taylor has probably made this turnover-less offense more efficient, but if he were on any other team left in the tournament, his TOV% would look more like your average good PG and not a GOAT ball protector.

Taylor is a perfect fit for the Wisconsin offense, but he'd probably struggle more than Mack in a faster pace where he's asked to create more in both half court and open floor

Last edited by C-Viggity; 03-23-2011 at 03:51 PM.
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote
03-23-2011 , 03:50 PM
Well doesnt matter how slow pace there Offense is, if hes far away the GOAT in terms of TOV% its pretty impossible for him to be at minimum not an elite ball handler/passer/whatever
NCAA Tournament:  Pre-Sweet 16 Discussion Quote

      
m