NBA Season Thread 2010-2011 - Page 485 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

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12-07-2010 , 03:28 PM

#12101

shane88888

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poisoneye1986

i think the wrong players are making the most money. thers just something wrong when you got guys like rudy gay making as much as lebron and wade.

idk the salaries exactly but i think Gay and bron make about 17 million a year. thats 34 mill together. if this money was dispersped correctly i think bron should be getting like 24 mill and gay with 10 million.

You're looking at this wrong. If there's a guy who is paid incorrectly, it's not Rudy Gay.

Instead of considering just Rudy and LBJ, consider every player in the league, the league's total revenue, and whatever share of that total revenue should/would/does go to the players.

A convenient way is to figure the revenue/available win (which is something like $1.7mm) and use whatever method to estimate how many wins a player is worth. Multiply and success.

12-07-2010 , 03:32 PM

#12102

shane88888

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Certainly some franchises struggle, but the fact that it's possible is a good sign that the current deal is reasonably close to equilibrium..

Or it's a sign that the league is rogged against parity (and we all know luckboxing the right pick in the right year or being located in a great city is the path of least resistance to wins and wins = revenue).

However, this is mostly the fault of the superior number of franchises in have-not cities rather than the haves.

Paging IH to argue that parity is not in the interest of the league.

12-07-2010 , 03:33 PM

#12103

shane88888

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There's also so nothing wrong with a franchise occasionally going down the *******.

Turnover is good. Relegation would be even better (and so sick in a game where you only really "need" nine guys).

12-07-2010 , 03:40 PM

#12104

capone0

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Rudy hasn't been that bad this season. Obviously not max money good but but not ridiculously overpaid either.

Arenas
Z-Bo
Redd
Rashard
Peja
Kenyon
Vince

I think are all ripping off their respective teams a ton more than Rudy currently is.

12-07-2010 , 03:45 PM

#12105

ClarkNasty

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Quote:

Or it's a sign that the league is rogged against parity

Function of the sport and not the CBA.

12-07-2010 , 03:46 PM

#12106

tarheeljks

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Please Hornets to Vegas

Pippen had a sick bank shot

Love Professor Griff

Epi, franchise values have generally done very well over time, which indicates that salaries as a % of revenue are not too high. Certainly some franchises struggle, but the fact that it's possible is a good sign that the current deal is reasonably close to equilibrium. Also, while other industries have labor as a lower % of revenue, keep in mind that in the NBA the players are not only a big chunk of the labor, they are also the PRODUCT. Labor + COGS is frequently more than 55% in other industries.

this this this

12-07-2010 , 03:47 PM

#12107

shane88888

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And LOL at believing anything the NBA or the owners claim, especially when this

Quote:

“Personally — and I’ll just speak for me personally, this is obviously not the position of the NBA — I like guaranteed contracts,” he said. “The team and the player come to an agreement. I think that’s fair.”

Morey also said he would prefer to have a hard salary cap, but with no rules about player contracts.

“I’d have no rules,” Morey said. “I would have a hard cap, because I think that’s fair and gets to a fair revenue split with the players, then I think no rules under that. Each team should be able to do what they think is best underneath that.

“That would favor the teams better at planning, better at forecasting.”

earned Morey and the Rockets a $100k fine last spring.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/7016779.html

Negotiating and posturing is serious business.

12-07-2010 , 03:49 PM

#12108

mjw0586

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Epi vs. TZ economic debate please

12-07-2010 , 03:50 PM

#12109

BobboFitos

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I've been waiting for 4 hours for comcast to come. This is the 2nd time they've done this to me. What the ****

12-07-2010 , 03:51 PM

#12110

BobboFitos

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Please Hornets to Vegas

Pippen had a sick bank shot

Love Professor Griff

Epi, franchise values have generally done very well over time, which indicates that salaries as a % of revenue are not too high. Certainly some franchises struggle, but the fact that it's possible is a good sign that the current deal is reasonably close to equilibrium. Also, while other industries have labor as a lower % of revenue, keep in mind that in the NBA the players are not only a big chunk of the labor, they are also the PRODUCT. Labor + COGS is frequently more than 55% in other industries.

This.

12-07-2010 , 03:54 PM

#12111

poisoneye1986

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shane88888

i didnt necessarily mean rudy gay was over paid but that lebron is underpaid. i guess you could look at it vice versa and say rudy is overpaid and lebron is worth what he is.

there just seems to be something wrong with a system if the #1 player in the league is paid the same as the #25 player (IDK) in the league.

also i agree w/ someone who said too much money is going to the bottom half of the league and not enough to the top players in the league.

12-07-2010 , 03:58 PM

#12112

capone0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poisoneye1986

it's always going to be the case if there is a CAP or a capped salary....the only way you could get what you want is an open market....and I'm not sure we really want that. the lakers / celtics, etc. already win enough as it is, it would just create a Yankees effect but 10 times worse since there is less variance in basketball.

12-07-2010 , 04:02 PM

#12113

Etats360

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Epi, franchise values have generally done very well over time, which indicates that salaries as a % of revenue are not too high. Certainly some franchises struggle, but the fact that it's possible is a good sign that the current deal is reasonably close to equilibrium. Also, while other industries have labor as a lower % of revenue, keep in mind that in the NBA the players are not only a big chunk of the labor, they are also the PRODUCT. Labor + COGS is frequently more than 55% in other industries.

Franchise will start bleeding money very soon if they already aren't.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/09/nba...-09-intro.html

That's from 2009. This year, franchises are losing value, revenue is going down, and player salaries are rising. I don't think it's unreasonable to decrease the BRI% given to players

Quote:

Originally Posted by shane88888

This is ********.

The owners are grown men who made a deal to divvy up the pie as the two sides agreed fit. The players have leverage because the players are the product (and still probably got pantsed in the last deal and will get pantsed in the next).

Do you begrudge Stephen King or Tom Cruise or Tyler Perry or J.K. Rowling or Coldplay?

huh? Explain please

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Function of the sport and not the CBA.

Disagree. Teams over the cap have too many exceptions (bird, MLE, etc.) at their disposal, which leads to decreased variance and less parity.

12-07-2010 , 04:03 PM

#12114

mburke05

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades

The 3 guys who immediately come to mind when talking about using the glass are:

1) Tim Duncan LDO. It's his signature shot. Generally when you see a bank shot from anyone it'll be from right here and in a similar situation (either with someone facing up in the post or doing a pullup)

duncan postmove bankshot vs Dampier

2) Dwight Howard uses his bank shot extensively this year. It looks a lot like Duncan's.

3) Dirk will tend to use the glass around that area but he also uses it in a fadeaway like so -

Dirk Nowitzki fadeaway bank shot vs Utah Jazz

dwyane wade also used to be a pretty good bank shooter when he played with shaq, i'm not sure why or how that changed but he used to spot up alot from 15-20ft and bank while leaning in to foul (but it was a pretty accurate shot despite it being with the intention of drawing a foul).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTA1Xgnhg7A

12-07-2010 , 04:03 PM

#12115

poisoneye1986

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,765

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

well what about a system where you have 1 player on each team that doesnt count against the cap.

say for the thunder they can pay durant as much as they want and it doesnt count against the cap but players 2-15 do count against the cap.

it may also create a system where lebron and wade or pau and kobe dont want to play on the same team b/c bron can make $30mill/yr but wade can only make $15 mil/yr. so wade seeks another team so he can make $30 mil/yr.

12-07-2010 , 04:05 PM

#12116

shane88888

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Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

The effects of a salary cap and the effects of a maximum salary are two different discussions unless, I suppose, if you want to argue that LeBron's value exceeds $80mm or whatever the cap is.

12-07-2010 , 04:08 PM

#12117

tarheeljks

The Dark Knight

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etats360

Disagree. Teams over the cap have too many exceptions (bird, MLE, etc.) at their disposal, which leads to decreased variance and less parity.

effect is minimal over what would occur in a vacuum imo

edit: on parity, to be clear

12-07-2010 , 04:11 PM

#12118

NozeCandy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudd

What was he, a trust fund kid or something?

I don't know, but nothing like having a guy who finished at the bottom of his class in HIGH SCHOOL and attended colleges I've never heard of running businesses with 8 to 9 figure operating budgets all while racking up sexual assault charges, making everyone hate him in 2 different cities, and becoming a master of the black arts of nepotism.

12-07-2010 , 04:12 PM

#12119

shane88888

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Etats360

huh? Explain please

Voluntary agreements are the best way to determine fair value (since otherwise they wouldn't happen).

Epi claimed the owners make less than they deserve and my point is that the owners (with probably superior negotiating ability and definitely superior information advantages) are getting at least what is fair and probably more.

He also said it was sports-specific. The people I listed all fall under the same category; like athletes, they are the ones that add the value.

12-07-2010 , 04:13 PM

#12120

Etats360

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Vacuum = hard cap? If so, I couldn't disagree more. Even if a team luckboxes an elite player, it would be difficult to maintain a supporting cast that's competent enough to contend for a long stretch of time.

12-07-2010 , 04:14 PM

#12121

Etats360

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I'm pretty sure Epi was was saying that the next CBA should be more owner-friendly, but I could be wrong

12-07-2010 , 04:14 PM

#12122

MEb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NozeCandy

You should go post a longer rant on Shinn in the Hater's Ball thread.

12-07-2010 , 04:16 PM

#12123

tarheeljks

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37,654

i disagree. you would be exposing yourself to injury risk due to decreased depth, but the best teams are typically top heavy enough that i believe you could keep a contending team in tact for a while

12-07-2010 , 04:17 PM

#12124

NozeCandy

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Seriously guys, think about the people who barely graduated in high school. Think about those scrubs. One of those guys was RUNNING AN NBA FRANCHISE. And it's not like it was a small class either, he was apparently dead last in a class of 293 ****ing kids.