I really hope the Mavs lowball Nerlens. I'm going to be pretty pissed if we end up paying him anywhere close to 20 million. There is absolutely no reason to give him a big offer at this point. Offer him something like 4/44 or tell him he can play on a one year deal. With his injury concerns and with no other offers, Mavs have all the leverage here.

From what I've seen so far, I'm fine with not keeping him and having a ton of cap space for upcoming years. He's never going to have offensive value so he will have to be a top 3 defensive player in the league to be close to being worth a huge contract.

I doubt it's him as much as his agent. Perhaps he can play harball and take the QO, but he is a guy with an injury history and the market isn't going to be better next year imo. I think both sides are doing the right thing now atm.

IN

Dubs announce PSLs for the Chase Center

1 season, multiple or dynasty?

this. arguing whether he's the 15th best center and if he's "average" is moot, he's ultra replaceable, either by another center, or a different gameplan

Not really moot when people were directly refuting that he was an average starting center. That has nothing to do with how valuable or unvaluable average starting center happens to be . This is a massive goalpost shift.

i don't agree that he is a league average starter*. league average nba player overall is useless for the purpose of this discussion

edit: * at the center position. which prob makes him not average overall given relative depth of that position vs others. also the gap b/t the best players and the rest is so big that many people who play plenty are probably "below average." which is actually a point in plumlee's favor i guess



edit2: this post is even confusing to me now b/c in some places i'm using average in reference to the league and in others i'm using it in reference to people who matter. clarifying that point would prob save people talking past each other in situations like this. that said it seems like there is real disagreement about plumlee's value relative to "starting" caliber centers.

I guess Dame and CJ have both reached out to Carmelo to sell him on POR. I don't even. Me in regular season TZ trying to convince myself that "maybe he actually works" or "I'm kind of coming around on Melo" would be a sad, sad thing.

the whole point was how much he was worth in a trade and or in contract?

He's sort of LMA-ish. Wouldn't be horrible.

But yeah same thing with Rockets and Melo with me too

It's not even in that/if he's a league average center or whatever, I said that in passing and it's been picked apart. It's whether or not his contract will be under or overvalued, and whether or not he would be in demand under said contract. Also I think it's extremely lazy to say he's replaceable because backup centers are easy to find or cheap--there's a big difference between an elite backup C and one that can be had on the scrap heap.

I think it's mainly due to me over or others underrating Mason. I've asked for data supporting the former but have not seen it.

There are like maybe 8 above average centers the rest are very replaceable

So your argument is that he's good, but undervalued so he'll get a small contract, but then will be some big desired asset under said contract, despite being (I assume) still undervalued?

Like, you might be right, his demand may change. It just seems like a strange and particularly pro-denver way of looking at things

i dont fully understand what we're arguing at this point, but if this is dood's point it's a reasonable take, although i think it's unlikely it plays out as such

not that he has to be good at either, but jw which side of the ball ppl think plumlee is good at for those that think he's good

Yea im not saying he's being ridiculous or anything, just seems like an oddly specific and optimistic way to think thngs are going to happen. Like what about him makes him undervalued now but probable to be overvalued later?

This is some really good plumlee chat, keep it up guys

Ok let's talk about Melo for a bit. What tier is he currently in? What team does he fit best with?

I've been under the impression he will make whatever team he joins worse but haven't watched knicks games in years (except for the lols).

Chris Paul should be able to keep him in line and hopefully he plays more 4 and even 5 as opposed to the 3. He has skills just plays dumb, cp3 should be able to control him

think melo has a lot of offensive value if he'll fall in line. think he is likely to be a massive liability defensively for a contender, but if the rockets are playing him at the 4 he's an upgrade to randerson

In for a draft. Salary cap idea sounds best but may be difficult.

I was playing around with the ESPN Trade Machine and hit a silly trade idea of Melo to the Rockets, Ryan Anderson and Joakim Noah to Detroit, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson to the Knicks, and two minimum salary Rockets to whoever will take them. The Rockets should have to give up draft considerations of some sort in that deal.

I don't think highly of Drummond/Jackson and think the Knicks are lol, so that seems to fit. We've got an Anderson/SVG reunion. And Melo gets out of New York. How good are the strip clubs in Houston?

I'm not a fan of any of those teams, so I rate this trade idea based on how many lulz it will provide.

In the right situation he would be a huge asset. With cp3 and harden I think his offensive value would be significant in the playoffs and if they keep him on controlled minutes. Houston may be the best contender fit for him right now.

Although he would be best defensively in a scheme that at least emphasizes team defense. With Harden and Dantoni already putting Carmelo out there really makes them a defensive disaster. But they will be in a lot of high scoring games

Pistons would have to get a ton of draft considerations, and not just likely late rox picks.