Granger is a terrible comparison as what makes Granger a borderline all-star player is his all-around play - is Barnes likely to be a 5 reb/ 1 blk/ 1 stl guy?

he's also, what, 19, so the build will fill out.

Granger's line this year is 15/4/1 the year before 20/5/2.5. So I can see the comparisons and obviously Granger is probably better than HB will be but Granger's handle and rebounding aren't that great.

I'm not a big Barnes as a NBA player right now. I think some of it might be the system Roy runs but who knows. We have a PG and a SG who really dominate the ball without shooting and we have Barnes whose handle isn't nearly as good as Kendal and Strick. We also have 2 really good rebounding bigs in Zeller and Henson in the front court. Barnes definitely hasn't impressed me that much in his years as a heel.

He is too passive. He can't handle that well. He definitely is clutch and can score but he does have some issues. The big thing about him is his work ethic and smarts are top notch. Not sure it'll be enough to be an NBA superstar though.

Granger and Gay both significantly taller and longer.

HB is listed at 6-8, so is Granger. HB is listed at 223 and Granger is listed at 228.

From NBAdraft.net
Strengths: Athletic wing with long arms (7-foot wingspan), good muscle tone and excellent body balance ... Kid with a great attitude, work ethic and willingness to improve … Has a disciplined approach. Shows a good understanding of the game making positive decisions with the ball ... Doesn’t show many bad habits, good body language … Has excellent form on his shot, and developing range … Can pull up off the dribble and hit shots … Does a good job of attacking the basket and creating contact and free throw shooting opportunities … Good foot speed, both side to side and first step off the dribble … Already has good body strength and with wide shoulders and core strength, should be able to add additional strength without sacrificing any speed or agility … Knocks down shots from the line at a good rate … Has only been playing primarily on the wing for the past 18 months, before that he was an inside player so he’s on a steep development curve learning how to play the wing. His development has been very quick which bodes well for him … Gives good effort on the defensive end getting low and using a proper defensive stance … Perspective. Appears to have a good understanding of where he is now, and where he’s going … Still shows a good deal of potential left in his game …

From Draftexpress:

Granger has a prototypical body for an NBA small forward. He has good size and strength at 6-8, 225 pounds, a solid wingspan and very solid athletic ability. He is smart and smooth, but very physical, and has fantastic footwork to go along with an excellent (and very quick) vertical leap.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1jfC4phwu
http://www.draftexpress.com

I can't find anything about arm length for Granger.

Gay is 6-8 225. 7-3 wingspan.

Again I'm not really pro HB in the NBA, I just think you are stretching how big Granger/Gay really are.

wat

i think seth is vying for victor's crown of making absolute judgments without watching.

Or you just have a picture that he's much smaller than he is, which would make the Thornton comment make a whole lot more sense.

Combine Measurements
Gay - 6'8" with shoes, 222 lbs, 7'3" wingspan
Granger - 6'8.5" with shoes, 225, 7'1.5" wingspan

Barnes measured 6'8.5" in shoes and 225 at the Durant skills academy

They are all pretty much the same size

Watched 5 minutes of thomas robinson last night and was impressed. Thoughts on his game, better prospect than perry jones?

ive watched more barnes than any other prospect sans sully. doesnt seem to have a ton of upside. cant get to the rim very well in college which is a big red flag. has a nice enough shot, but it didnt hit at a very high percentage last year, although is pretty good this year.

Bolded is the big knock on Barnes imo. He was heralded as a guy who could really beat his guys off the dribble and get to the rim at will, like an elite wing.

He's good at shooting off the dribble and he's a good finisher, but he doesn't show near enough aggression, which I think might be due to a very average handle.

Just different. Robinson is an all-universe rebounder which is his big value to an NBA team. Out of 4000 or so D-1 players, he ranks first in defensive rebounding %, which is really impressive. He was playing awesome last year too, but the Morris twins stole most of his minutes.

I think he can be a very valuable NBA player on the right team.

Every time I've watched him, he just looks like a jump shooter. To his credit he's gotten a lot better at shooting compared to the first half of last year, but he's still a jump shooter who doesn't create many easy shots for himself or others. The worst thing about him is that if I'm only sort of paying attention, I don't immediately notice when he leaves the floor (racist ban). Huge red flag for me

I think if you watch a lot of UNC, you'll notice how much his offense has been a product of the system. They run a ton of plays for him to shoot specifically and there is no one else who scores or creates shots in the backcourt. Marshall and Strickland are just not legitimate scoring options.

tarheels is right, the only real other offensive option is feeding it in to Zeller in the post. I think you might think 'ball hog' or 'can't pass' if you just looked at his stats, but I can't imagine thinking that if you watch UNC play. He just doesn't take that many bad shots anymore.

Roy Williams has done an exceptionally poor job coaching this year.

Even when he does try to get in the lane though, I don't see him going to the rim hard looking to finish, from what I've seen, he tends to either pull it back out or stop and shoot a little turnaround jumper far too often for my liking. He just doesn't seem to be head and shoulders above the college competition when it comes to athleticism and finishing ability, which I'd be looking for in a wing if I were an NBA GM picking at the top of the lottery.

Agreed
I like MKG more than Barnes, but I'd def bet Barnes goes before him

So C-Vigg am I not wrong when I venture that Barnes is much more of a one-dimensional scorer at the NBA level than Gay or Granger?

i tend to think he's not a tremendously high upside guy, but i also think he's got a high floor. works hard and good body, would be surprised if he didn't develop into a good shooter and average defender, probably never going to be a #1 or #2 option-- so no, maybe not who you want with a top 3 pick, but if he was drafted like 6th on the right team it'd be thumbs up.

so why were the morris twins playing so much more than thomas robinson? he seems a lot better. i guess he just improved?

He had a few non-basketball issues last year as well, which probably depressed his PT.

i mean, werent the morris twins like legit criminals too?

Markieff and Marcus were both very good last year. Part of Thomas Robinson blowing up is that KU is pretty thin (they returned 1 player who averaged over 15 mins a game last year) which has allowed him to have a high usage, but ya he has been rebounding off the charts...

Robinson was out of shape to start the year and then his mom died and he was away from the team for a bit, right?

My early thoughts:


Davis and Drummond are the clear 1/2 and could go in either order. Nbadraft.net actually has Drummond going first:


Regardless both are elite defensive bigs, and those guys nearly always grade out above other types of players. After them things get interesting....


Barnes and Sullinger are the "proven" college players who may lack great upside. Its probably due to playing at UNC, but Barnes gets the Marvin Williams comparison often.

Thomas Robinson seems like a sure thing to me....solid rebounder and defender at PF.

Perry Jones, Gilchrist, Beal, Lamb all show great upside. Lamb and Gilchrist in particular could rise all the way to #3 by draft time imo.

I'm not a huge fan of John Henson or Terrence Jones and think both will be marginal pros.

My personal top 10:

1. Davis
2. Drummond

3. Gilchrist
4. Sullinger
5. Robinson

6. Barnes
7. Beal
8. Lamb

9. Henson
10. P Jones


gaps indicate tiers

Drummond is the winner of way overrated award from what I've seen

I don't like bigs who are soft at all