How when you flip flop like a fish?

From Curry most overrated to top 5 organic winner within 12-15 months. Looks like everything you say is flip flop and to be discounted!

Fallguy,

Now that LeBron has cemented himself into all-nba 2nd team at age 39.


Why wasn't Jordan able to do the same at age 39? I thought Jordan was the GOAT.


Jordan 3 point % at 39 and 40 are much less than LEBRAN'S which is 41%.

Teammates matched him in every category so he never carried any category

It's just a statistical anomaly that he led categories by 1 point or 0.2 steals

Jordan carrying the Bulls > Lebron sharing the load with Kyrie

Both Kyrie and Lebron have career Finals average of 28 ppg... scoring help = star help, so Lebron needed more star help while MJ won with role players

Curry proved me wrong, so I made him a GOAT, whereas Lebron never proved me wrong on a single thing that I ever said about him.

When Curry won with "loser" Wiggins - that was it for me - Lebron could never win with Wiggins - Bron-ball needs far more help than that.. It's ridiculous how much more help Lebron needs - he never won as 1st option without 2 franchise players as teammates

Lebron would have missed the playoffs with that team.

This was your analysis of Curry when Curry was 33 years old. 12 years into his career.




Looks like everything you say is massively wrong!


Team Jordan eating Ls right now.

If a Jordan stan fallguy thinks Curry is the most overrated player in NBA history in year 12, and by year 13 of Curry's career was "proven wrong", we have to immediately scrutinize and lobotomize every single NBA argument fallguy has ever made.

This is a gigantic brain error that is deeply rooted in lack of understanding of anything NBA related!

Just a 3 point shooter = one dimensional

Most multifaceted player OAT = carried

Midrange Jumpers = scoring load

Jordan would never average 22 on 35% vs Spurs... And he would never average 26 on 35% vs 08' Celtics - Jordan literally broke the playoff record at the same age vs goat comp, while Lebron was wetting the bed.

this clear-cut gap in performance CONFIRMS that Jordan was better at 21-23 years old

And of course Jordan was far superior from 23-38

The only age that Lebron was better is 39 years old (juiced to the gills) after his legs went from Tmac bird legs to tree trunk Karl Malone (clear-cut pics shown earlier itt - so Lebron is all roided up to catch MJ) - this is according to his peers (KG) and various media (espn's sonnen) and various people in the steroid industry (Conte), while the FBI already caught Bron's wife and trainer getting the drugs for him.

Btw, rookie Lebron averaged 20 on bad efficiency at 19-20 years old - sophomore Jordan easily beats that.
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Actually, I realized that Curry fit all my criteria.

He was an expert jumpshooter that produced a great brand of ball movement and chemistry that could win with less (just Klay) - no need to team up with opposing franchise players because he was good enough to win with less.

I realized this early in the 2022 season... Then the Warriors started running away with it and were clearly the best team again - I was like "with just Wiggins??... Wow, Curry fits my criteria maybe better than anyone...

so I changed my rankings...

The fact that I was capable of changing course shows my integrity - 10+ years trashing Lebron and NOT ONCE have I been proven wrong.. Everything he does adds to the case against him... bron-ball never evolved out of simpleton AAU ball-dominance.... MORE HELP PLEASE!! story of his career

Jordan literally had 0 games played for 4 seasons between those ages. So he literally cannot be better during those years.

And what was Jordan TS% at age 38?

The numbers tell the story:

Career Finals

Kyrie................... 28 ppg
Lebron............... 28 ppg

^^^ that's completely carried compared to MJ

MJ didn't need expensive star help (a GM's nightmare) because he could carry the scoring load and therefore won with role players (GM's dream).

Otoh, passers like Magic, Oscar or Lebron are too ball-dominant at high scoring volume to carry scoring load vs top teams... So they need all-time scoring help and can't win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Lowry or Pippen.

In addition to needing the most help, ball-dominators have lower team ceilings/Finals records.. If Magic and Lebron aren't winners on the championship level (9-10 Finals record) then it's impossible with that style of play.

Notice how the numbers and historical record back up every assertion that I make.. For example, we saw Magic get massively upset by KJ in 1990 when he tried to carry the scoring load, while Lebron had the same massive upset loss in 09' to Dwight - Bron was too ball-dominant at carry-job volume (and also too predictable and turnover prone at that volume in clutch-time).

Here is a better question.
Why would MJ care at 39 ?

The guy retired twice and still accomplished more with tons of money at 35 and still was the best player in the league ?

The only sensible thing mj would of continue is to win more rings or at the very least try to get a 4 peat but stupid as management was , they made the stupidest decision ever made by a professional sport team by splitting a 3 peat championship team , denying MJ the opportunity to make history .

Fwiw I would of been very pissed too shrug

Ps: one thing is for sure that define era very well , management would never split a team , a championship team for sure , without lebron support .

Jordan was better at every age that he played from 21-38

And Jordan got hurt right before his 39th birthday (so Bron is better at 39), but 38-year Jordan easily averaged better raw stats than 38 or 39-year Lebron when we consider pace and DRTG - the league gives up 20 more PPG and most of that goes to the stars, so Jordan's 25/6/5; would be 30/7/6 or something in today's game

Regarding TS, that's a function of defensive attention such as taking over a 19-win team and going .500 with them (19 win improvement)... Otoh ,Lebron faces zero defensive attention by virtue of AD leading the way, while 4 other teammates get Pippen stats.

You could easily say that the only reason Murray could score 26 PPG is because Jokic is a great playmaker and unselfish passer.

Maybe if Jordan was a better passer/playmaker then Pippen scores a lot more. It's hard for anyone else to score when Jordan is taking half the possessions as his own scoring attempt.

yeah if only mj could lead his team to 14th place as the 2nd best player at age whatever he'd be goat, but alas

Are u serious ?!?!
Pippen demonstrate many times he was rather weak mentally .
Wtf u think pippen didn’t had the ball but kukoc did when the game was on the line when mj wasn’t on the team ?

And pippen still had like 16 fga per game while being lower in fg% then mj …
And less reliable on the FT than MJ .

U give too much the ball to pippen u end up with LeBron results on blaming others when u lose lol ….

hes talking preseason favorites. its also got a lot to do with the weak East where the Cavs were basically a lock for the finals but would always be dogs to the West.

^^^ that's just really absurd on so many levels:

* Jordan has a massive track record of teammates growing alongside him and increasing their scoring, while Lebron has the track record of cratering many teammates and teammates scoring less alongside him (far below their career highs/capacity).. It's well-known that Lebron imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, so zero rookies grew from single digits to meaningful producer on his watch (zero young player development in 2 decades) - the inability to develop young players means that Lebron needs ready-made stars to win and more help in general compared to organic casts that developed young players and chemistry.

* Pippen averaged the same in 94' as his highs alongside MJ - so he was playing to capacity alongside MJ, which means all of MJ's scoring was needed

* Poor efficiency is the sign of someone that can't handle additional load, and Pippen was a historic bricklayer.. So are you saying that Pippen deserved more shots when he was averaging 15.7 on 34% in the 96' Finals??? What about the 93' Finals when he shot 46% true shooting (0% from three and 59% from FT line)... Are you saying Pippen deserved more shots??.. Do you realize that Pippen has the worst shooting splits ever for a playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG - he did this twice and they were title runs (96', 98') - he also nearly set the record for bad efficiency on the 93' run.... What about the 93' 1st Round when he shot 33% or the 92' ECSF (X-Man dominated him) - you think Pippen deserved more shots???.... C'mon.. Absurd take.. The Bulls went 6/6 and were unbeatable with minimal all-star help because MJ was just THAT dominant

I’m impress by your rarely unbiased take …

Lebron played during the weakest era of the east by far for like his entire career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...t_vs_west.html

And obv mj had it pretty hard .
No wonder he couldn’t win anything without a decent team pre 90s .

Of course but that's the case for any franchise player, and Lebron wasn't favored in the preseason until he teamed up with the next-best player in the league

Wade was #2 across the board in 2010 (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) and yet the Magic/Bird-like team-up fell to underdog vs baby Westbrick (2012), or loser to 1-star Mavs (2011) and fossil Duncan (2014).

Lebron's team-ups were favored every year from 2011-2016 but fell to underdog or loser every year, except the Allen miracle - it took a miracle for Bron-ball to not underachieve favored talent (lose with preseason favorites, or fall to underdog).




Nonsense.. Dirk won 67 games in 2007 and the same net rating as the 2014 Spurs with similar cast as Lebron's 2009 cast.

and then Dirk executed the goat upset in the Finals with a worse cast than Lebron had in 2010.

So Dirk has carried weak casts to better teams in the regular season and obviously won with less in the postseason, while Lebron needed among the most help ever to actually win titles - he never won as 1st option without 2 franchise players and perennial all-stars as teammates (and he actually mostly lost with this and only won at poor frequency).

Furthermore, Lebron needed an all-star teammate to win 40 games in 05', while MJ needed nothing to win 40 games.. Lebron also added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender to win 50 games in 06, while MJ needed no cast or coaching to win 50 in 88'.




The 2008 Cavs were hot garbage

Then Lebron got the all-star spacing that his stiff-arm needs to be MVP and have a true contender, so the team increased to 66 wins in 2009.

Mo Williams taught everyone for the first time that Lebron's drive-heavy game "needs spacing" to be MVP and have a true contender.

Accordingly, it was the arrival of Mo that increased the Cavs by 19 wins and Mo spearheaded this increase by achieving superior PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, scoring and efficiency than 1990 Pippen




The 2007 Mavs and 2009 Cavs were Year 7 organic juggernauts with all-star sidekicks and other teammates that were recent all-stars.. There's no comparison with these casts and Jordan's zero all-star teammates and worst-ever casts from the 80's.

You will claim that Josh Howard and Mo Williams were garbage but they provided similar scoring levels to Pippen, while their teams had superior defenses (6th and 3rd) than the 1st three-peat Bulls (7th, 4th, 7th).. aka more help on both sides of the ball.

More importantly, the 2010 Cavs added a 3rd option that was a better scorer than prime Pippen because Jamison scored 1k more points in 3k less minutes and is a rare 20k scorer in history - Jamison drastically outplayed Lebron in the 2007 1st Round.. So the 2009 and 2010 Cavs had more scoring options and better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls..




Any top 20 all-time player will have a 60-win organic juggernaut and league favorite by Year 7, such as Jokic, Giannis, Curry, Dirk, MJ and Lebron.

All of these "organic" casts achieved favorite status via chemistry instead of having many star teammates.

The difference is that Lebron gave up after Year 7 and started teaming up with opposing franchise players thereafter.. "Organic" teams are characterized by 1 franchise player, but Lebron achieved better casts by taking the top 3 franchise players from 3 different teams in the conference and put them on 1 team - he diluted his competition and consolidated power on 1 team.. By giving up on winning with "normal" rosters and chemistry (organic), he never really learned how to win and only learned how to team-hop (talent-based winning, all-star team strategy).
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GOAT list

1. MJ
2. Mo Williams

3. Antawn Jamison

GOAT: anyone who played with LeBron.

Scrub: anyone who played with Jordan.

It's amazing how according to TWOG Jordan was so great at developing players YET AT THE SAME TIME they were still worthless scrubs. Make it make sense.

Wow I got punked by a news story today that LeBron announced his retirement at the end of this season. Big headlines. It's an internet site and I used to always double check any big story on reliable sources, and never caught them in any pure BS before. I didn't double check this one. They click baited me, I guess. It's called Smart News coming with phone apps, but I've checked out a lot of amazing true crime stories on there and found them all verified previously. Never had read their sports before I don't think.

So I just checked it all out, saw his statement. If you ask me, it looks like the Brett Favre retirement plan coming our way. Anyway, I couldn't quite believe the story, but it had part of me going.