First off I was putting out the Kobe thing as sarcasm. Of course they weren't picked to do what they did, and it is because Kobe made his team better that was my point. That is why I said some of you don't have a clue. Also, big whoop when he wins one without Shaq then I will be impressed. Even Shaq says that. Up until this year Kobe was a big "I" player. He dismantled the Lakers dynasty by wanting to be the man and until this last year hasn't even come close.

When Brett Favre wins a title without Reggie White I will be impressed.

well last year he got just as close as Kobe without Shaq and if he comes back that is a good possibility isn't it.

In case you hadn't noticed, a lot of regs in this forum LOVE to play devil's advocate, evidently to show how sophisticated they are. The more popular a player is to Joe Six Pack, the more they must strive to dismantle him. If they're right, it's pure luck or coincidence. Yeah Favre can be an interception machine and be a bonehead at times but you'd think he's the second coming of Stoney Case with some of the ridiculous comments that have been posted.

this made me giggle A+

ummm what? If you're talking about AP, I never said he was terrible. If you're talking about Tavaris, he is terrible, and I'd love to see an argument that he isn't.

Also, the problem with the Vikings D is they still have a very poor defensive backfield and they did absolutely nothing to address that.

If you wanna make that bet for a small amount I would, but I doubt any amount I'd put on it would be worth it to you since I have like no free gambling $$$$ right now. I just think a lot of the sportsbook perception is driven by ZOMG PACKERS LOST FAVRE THEY ARE DOOMED!! when in actuality the Packers are looking good across the board with the only question mark being how Rodgers will perform, but if what we've seen so far from him is any indication, it shouldn't be much of an issue if at all. I just don't think Jared Allen + the perceived dropoff between Favre and Rodgers is enough to make up the obvious gap between the two teams from last year. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, hell I thought the Packers would be 2-14 at the start of last season.

Came in here to post this. Its hilarious how some people think its so hipster to hate on certain people to crazy degrees just because they are popular.

If you don't like Brett Favre (and aren't a fan of a Packers rival), then I feel sorry for you. You obviously aren't enjoying football as much as the rest of us.

Favre obviously deserves flack for the wishy washy retirement stuff, but he is far from the antichrist. And yes, the Packers would be much better with Brett Favre this season than Aaron Rodgers.

it was the 00 or 01 season and the Vikings needed to have Tampa lose in GB to win the division. I was talking with Vikings fan (supposedly) and he said he wanted GB to lose as they are his rival. I explain how actually being a viking fan you want GB to win today. He says, "I don't care I still want GB to lose" so I follow with, "so you are just a packer hater" and he says, "no I am a viking fan" It is this ignorance that make me want to stab people. I mean if you want to hate then hate. I have no respect for it. If you are a fan of a team and happen to be my teams rival than great I have respect for you on that front. A couple of my very good friends and team mates (as I play semi pro ball) are Bears fans but they aren't ignorant about crap. **** they even say they would love Favre on the Bears. One of my good friends and I wanted to go to Chi town for the Pack Bear game down there. And this particular friend came with me to a Packer playoff game whom he rooted for GB in.

I just hate ignorance and this tread is filled with it.

This is another stupid comment.

1) They upgraded at the FS position by replacing D. Smith w/ Madeiu Williams.
2) They brought in Jared Allen to provide a pass rush so the DBs dont have to cover so long.
3) They are bad at one spot, CB #2. Winfield, Williams, Sharper are all good although Sharper is overated and didn't deserve a pro bowl spot.

Heres why you think their defensive backfield is very bad. You hear on sportcenter that they have the 32nd rated pass defense. You know what that means? Last season they gave up the most yards through the air. Why? Obviously because nobody runs on them [and they previously needed to blitz to provide a pass rush] and when you throw on them 40.4 times / game the #'s add up.

Vikings pass defense w/ stats that mean something:

Avg Pass play: 7.0 - 16th
Completion %: 64.2 - 28th
INTS: 15 - 20th
TDS Allowed: 22 - 15th

So yes they are below average in pass defense, but they certaintly aren't the worst pass defense in the NFL. Add M. Williams + J. Allen, and the Vikigns "Pass Defense Problems" will be over.

Making the semi's in a weaker conference = Winning the tougher conference and losing in the finals?
I wasn't clear I meant QB = most important position and barring a leap from Tarvaris or BB turning into the second coming of Randy Moss passing offense will still be a weakness (understatement). What BillNye said about pass defense.
I am not hating on Favre to play devil's advocate. It would be the equivalent of me getting mad at you for hating Tim Duncan.

Earlier in the thread you said you hope Favre comes back gets traded, Rodgers gets injured and the Packers go 8-8. Sounds like someone who cares about his teams best interest and not spiting people he has grudges against.

Guys! Can't we all just get along and be happy that all of our teams will be better than Detroit?

The best pass defense is a pass rush. You'll see improvement.

GB goes with Rogers, Farve is traded to TB, TB releases Garcia, Garcia signs with Minn, Minn goes 18-0.

lol

What do you mean? Detroit is going to win ten games again. LOL.

Cardinals are going to SuperBowl

yes i am a packers fan but I am (and have been) basically against Ted Thompson. I mean he has drafted well. But never went after a free agent (outside of Woodson) now that his drafts are coming of age so to say. His very first draft pick was Rodgers, so that tells you Favre wasn't in his plans from the beginning. He wanted Favre out asap. That is what I am pissed at. I mean come on he could have used that particular draft pick on another position knowing you had at least a few more years out of Favre and think about the QB spot in a year or 2. So I blame Thompson more than anyone for this predicament.

Thompson has been a very good GM.

Pretty awful reason to be against a GM.

Should I hate Bill Polian for never going after big free agents?

Did he ever push an icon out for his new regime? Yes. Well ok maybe not icon. But if he would have kept Marshall Faulk, then the Colts would probably have the rings the Pats do, not just one.

I cannot stand Brett Favre (Most of family is from Wisconsin and I was agitated so much before the Den/GB superbowl I can never forgive GB).. but comparing him to Garcia is ridiculous.

No one can honestly say they would take Garcia over Favre.. and I do agree Favre is overrated.

adding jared allen should help the vikings pass defense quite a bit. defending the pass well is probably more about having a good pass rush than it is having good defensive backs.

edit: apparently football outsiders has redone the way it calculates dvoa, and has also changed dpar into dyar (yards above replacement). i only point this out b/c favre was only slightly ahead of garcia in the original dvoa rankings (5th, 7th), but in the new ones the gap is larger (5th, 10th). also w/their new "true yards" metric favre is a top 5 qb whereas garcia is not in the top 10, granted it says true yards only matter in relation to actual yards (box score yards)


dyar + revised dvoa

Rofl at putting Garcia on same level as Favre, now or in the past. Ya'll is nuts.

i mean, yeah, it's either that or 38 year old brett favre is not the same as 28 year old brett favre and tons of people refuse to admit that.

Or maybe its the exact opposite of this (my vote).

Its pretty ridiculous for you to say this... And then say this...
because now wtf am I supposed to do? No matter WHAT argument I make or comment I make, unless I agree with you, then I am just trying to be hipster. BS. You dont get to just SAY they would be "much" better with Favre this season. I think they might be a little better, but have no idea why you'd think they would be MUCH better, and better at all should still be up for some debate. He is like 128 years old, you know that right? I know he is Superman but at some point he has to actually get old.

Yes, they did, they improved their pass rush.

Considering your entire argument is "I mean, come ON!" you should probably cool it with the ignorance stuff. No matter how stupid your friends are.

For 2008-09?

One more post just for tuq because he loves it when I dont multiquote