?

Those aren't faster though

Maybe one of these?

Here's an overview of the scenarios in each group. Opponent in parenthesis.

Group A
Won group: Germany
To finish runner-up: Belgium (@Germany)- Need to match Turkey’s result
Turkey (vs Azerbaijan)-need to gain at least 1pt more than Belgium

Group B
To win group:
Russia (vs Andorra)- Need draw if Ireland win, will win group if Ireland fail to win
Ireland (vs Armenia)- need a win + Russia loss
To finish runner-up (if they don’t win the group):
Russia- can do no worse than runner-up
Ireland- need draw
Armenia (vs Ireland)- need win

Group C
Won Group: Italy
To finish runner-up:
Serbia (@Slovenia)-Need win
Estonia- Need Serbia to fail to win

Group D
To finish runner-up: France (vs Bosnia-Herz)- Need draw
Bosnia-Herz. (@France)- Need win
To finish runner-up: The team above that doesn’t win the group will finish runner-up.

Group E
Won group: Netherlands
Runner-up: Sweden

Group F
To win group: Greece (@Georgia)- Need draw, or will win group if Croatia fail to win
Croatia (vs Latvia)- Need win + Greece loss
To finish runner-up: The team above that doesn’t win the group will finish runner-up.

Group G
Won group: England
Runner-up: Montenegro

Group H
To win group: Portugal (@Denmark)- Need draw
Denmark (vs Portugal): Need win
To finish runner-up: The team above that doesn’t win the group will finish runner-up.

Group I
Won group: Spain
To finish runner-up: Scotland (@Spain)- Need to match Czech Republic result
Czech Republic (@Lithuania)- Must gain at least 1pt more than Scotland

Best Runner-up (qualifies automatically)
Only Sweden, Croatia, Portugal or Denmark can qualify via this route. Many scenarios are possible, some key points are:

If Sweden win vs Netherlands they are guaranteed to qualify as the best second-place.

If Sweden draw and Portugal-Denmark draw then Portugal (group winner) and Denmark (best second-place) will both qualify.

If Sweden lose they will not be best-second place. If Croatia don’t win they cannot finish as best second-place. They also need Denmark-Portugal not to end as draw and to make up goal differential (currently 6 behind Portugal and 4 behind Denmark)

So tonight's the night for this golden (?) generation of the Belgian team. We (probably) have to win away against Germany, so it won't be easy (understatements ftw).

Facts:
*8/11 spots are already filled in:
mignolet
ciman - kompany - lombaerts - vertonghen
simons
witsel - fellaini
In front of that we usually have 2 out of dembele/mertens/hazard and a deep striker (lukaku/ogunjimi/de camargo).
* de camargo and ogunjimi are injured, lukaku doesn't play a lot at chelsea and is not in great form. Other strikers are Vossen and Vleminckx.

This makes me think that maybe leekens should consider playing without a deep striker and with Hazard (or possibly dembele?) as a false 9 (cfr messi @ barca).

Pros:
* German defenders are mostly big and strong but not that dynamic, so it makes sense to attack them with our midgets instead of a true, big striker.
* If we lose the battle in midfield and risk being overrun, this makes it easier to overload the midfield.
* No Belgian striker has ever played a great match lately as it is not an easy role to play in this system. I think it's better suited for a technically gifted player like hazard than for a true striker. None of the strikers is in great form either.
* A system like that invites coming men from the midfield, and we have players capable of doing that and scoring goals (witsel / fellaini).
* We keep target men on the bench, who can be brought on fresh if things don't go our way and we just have to pump the ball forward and hope for the best (donotwant but it is not unlikely).

Cons:
* I don't know if hazard has ever played this role and if he is capable of it.
* Is an all-important match vs germany the right occassion to gamble with something like this?
* We play all our creative players from the start which means we can't bring in one of them, fresh, in minute 60 or something.
* All three of them have slight injury problems and leekens has expressed fear for having to do substitutions in the first half.

Still, given the current personnel situation and the opposition, I think something like this is at least something to consider.

Thoughts anyone?

Sold my ticket to my Uncle for the Ireland game tonight. Literally cannot get out of bed. Pretty gutted

Edit:- I can't believe how worried I am about Armenia.

Actually the new balls are not less predictable, but more predictable. They fly truer than old balls. However they also move more violently in the air because of this same trueness which gets mislabelled as 'unpredictably'.

Am also very worried about Armenia Kev. I think Trap has done a good job overall and has us very hard to beat, however we also find it hard to beat weaker sides and he has complete blind spots when it comes to players. Shane Long behind Cox in the pecking order is just so obviously ******ed I don't know what to say. He has no idea about our CM and doesn't appear to realise who does or doesn't qualify to play for us given some of his choices. Nervous .

You sick or what? **** sake lad most important international since the France game!

i wish the players didn't know a draw is all they need, because Ireland playing for a draw will not be nice to watch.

agree with everything said about Gio, he is just an old man stuck in his ways and is way to stubborn to change now.

--

Worthington quit the NI job, i've no idea what they expect from him when he hasn't got a massive player pool to choose from and constantly changing managers doesn't help much either.

Sick as a dog Raz but I'll def be in Dublin for the playoff!

Armenia have only won 2 of their last 14 away games and one of those was in Andorra. The Slovakia result might be clouding our judgment (making myself feel better) on just how good they are. If we cannot get the result we need tonight then we just have no right even thinking about going to Ukraine/Poland.

Also I thought Serbia would only need a point in Slovenia to go through but Estonia actually own them on H2H so they need a win. If we could sneak into a seeding position and then draw Estonia that would be fantastic.

Have you given up hope on Russia ****ting the bed?

Andorra are about 144-1 to win!

We can't go round praying for miracles. Can't help but be slightly frustrated that we didn't get 4 points out of Slovakia like we should have though. Same thing every qualifying I suppose and we were lucky away against Russia so it balances out somewhat.

Russia -3 @ around 4/5 is a great bet imo

Really strange team Belgium is atm, with some really weak spots with people like Timmy Simons starting and the lack of real (good) full backs and a good striker (as of yet), combined with elite centre backs and great (attacking) midfielders/wingers. I'm sort of rooting for you because of Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and because I'm really wondering how good this team can be on the EC but yeah, I'd say you're huge underdogs. Hopefully 2014 should be easier to qualify for.

And I'd agree that you don't necessarily need an out and out goalgetter playing in that side, Dembele could be well capable of that role but I haven't seen much of him in England - has his (speed of) decisionmaking improved yet? That and his inability to convert chances to goals seemed to be the only things holding him back from being a great player when he was here. Sadly for him, those are huge factors though.

If he didn't Hazard, as you mention, might be best suited for that role which would also make space for the ridiculously in-form Mertens.


How is this relevant though?

Best second place get in automatically. There are 9 groups.

He was bragging

Oh, I don't get the brag.

GO **** SWEDEN HEJA SVERIGE

Agreed. Simons was brought back to the team by Leekens at a point where we were really unbalanced / undisciplined, making us really vulnerable whenever we lost possession. At that point in time I agreed with Leekens as no one else was disciplined enough to play that position.
Right now though, I think someone like defour should be capable of doing this, with the added benefit that he is much younger and of course a much better footballer. If we don't qualify, I think Leekens should be starting defour alot more. It would help if he played more at Porto though. Also vertonghen could play the role, but I don't think he plays there for ajax anymore?

Lukaku has hardly progressed the last 1.5years (or so it seems) and I still have doubts about his technical ability. I also don't think he is the right type of striker for the way we play. Bit sad that our biggest prospect (next to hazard) may not be the goal scoring machine we would like, and I don't really see enough quality with other strikers. Maybe the mertens / hazard / dembele (/chadli) way is really the way we should go?

And yeah, a gazillion talented central defenders while none of them is a really great full back is a bit sad.

Dembele hasn't scored a lot for Fulham. I'm trying to follow him as he is one of my favourite players, and it seems the things you mention (decision making / converting chances) are still his main problems (and injury proneness obv). He was pretty good in the 6-0 vs qpr (as was the rest of the team) and he played quicker / more direct, so maybe he is evolving.

I really hope the three of them play and create some magic. I've been nervous all day

I don't get the Jabulani hate. It's a great ball.

He doesn't (except for some phases of our game v Groningen when we were with 10), but he does get into those defensive midfield positions a lot - especially when we're in possesssion. Show him a tactical sheet or 2 with some arrows and he should be able to do it better than Simons any given day :P

Agree completely. Footballs are faster and truer than ever. Which leads to more goals, more excitement, more interesting game etc. Goalkeepers of course don't like them, they'd prefer we use old leather brown balls from the 1920's. Actually medicine balls would suit goalkeepers better.

*preparing myself for yet another night of glorious failure*

If it wasn't for that Czech diver youse would be through yea? Play off I mean. GL.

Btw, don't forget, group games kick off simultaneously so Group B games (Ire) kick off at 6.45pm.

Yup. Which is nice because I am supposed to play 5 a side at 9 so I should still be able to. No beer for the match though but I can deal with that.

Yup tonight wouldn't have mattered. Gutted

Thanks...good luck to your lads as well