a list of ultimate teams would be cool. it would also bring other factors into play, like depth at different positions and balance. obviously wouldn't recommend doing it beyond like 3 or 4 squads though.

Getting late already. I'll do one more quick but (after some sleep) I have some hours early tomorrow that I hope to use on this.



40 (-14)

Marek Hamsik - Slovakia - Napoli

Central midfielder

Am I overrating Hamsik?

Here is what I said the last time:

So, looking at numbers, the defensive ones (like tackles and interceptions) I expected to be a little bit higher, if nothing else as a result of the impressive work-rate that I think I'm seeing.

They are more in the range of standard attacking midfielder territory of players, than I thought they would be.

Having said that, it's definitely positioning as the result of tactical discipline and amount of running, that always stood out rather than any physical midfield battling.
Something arguably more valuable anyway, but still, with that, I would have thought would have come a little bit higher raw numbers as in more interceptions and tackles.

I will be very interested to see how he does in the Champions League this season. How his game translates to that, more better players around him would also be nice (Inler is a start) as well as a closer look at his effectiveness defensively, which my perception of, has kept him ahead of a lot of players.

That will determine if he can stay around the same rank or start dropping more, even if plenty of things remain in his game (as described in the quote) that I find excellent.

yeah i have a hard time with hamsik too. on the one hand he seems so good, yet i sometimes wonder why? the conclusion that i have come to is that he is a very good player, but over hyped to some degree. maybe its just my limited exposure to serie a (outside of the milan clubs and roma), but i am always uncertain about players like him, pastore, and sanchez that are highly rated at the smaller clubs.

Speaking of small club players, though Napoli is pretty big of course, they just had not done anything for a long time, this is pretty much the current small club talisman over them all:



39 (+57) Antonio Di Natale - Italy - Udinese

Forward

It's quite extraordinary how well he's played in his thirties compared to earlier in his career.

In fact unbelievable enough that I, with some expectation that he would not be able to keep it up, that the superb season after his knee injury, almost had to be, at least something of a fluke, definitely held back his ranking somewhat, expecting him to fall back down to earth and make a very high ranking (that his level looked worthy of) look silly.

Instead he has quite simply continued this very high level, and here I am ranking a small town club player in his 30s among the best in the world, but who for most of his career, without taking anything away from the good player that he used to be, was actually closer to decent than he was great.

From the outside it will look strange but I also notice that just about anyone actually watching him play is quickly won over and often quite astounded by how freaking excellent this small stature, small town player really is.

Alexis Sanchez younger, faster and stronger, worth a lot of money, with many years ahead of him has received much of the attention for Udinese's CL qualification, at least internationally, and he did have his best season in Europe so far, but for anyone watching there is little doubt about who continued to consistently be the best player on the pitch. That was Di Natale.

Technically brilliant with great first touches and finishes with his outstanding right foot (including on freekicks), he reads the game excellent and what for me has stood out quite a bit in the last couple of years, is that with his direct style, he is actually proving himself to be a good playmaker seeing the game quickly executing short or longer passes to take advantage of the situation. That on top of his more typical striker abilities like quick and clever movement, make up one excellent player.

yup di natale has been superb. clubs would be all over him if he was 5 years younger.

this thread!

thanks for this thread, excellent ish here

Thanks guys.

I should really do a few hours now and try get close to the finish line.

I can't believe the new season is just around the corner.

In fact Bundesliga starting tomorrow which is great even if I think I'll miss the game live.

Let's make a deal. I will spend the next three hours finishing my essay on Michael Carrick and post it here later if you spend the same time working on your list.

please do to both ideas

haha,

OK deal!

38 (+35)

Dimitar Berbatov - Bulgaria - Manchester United

Striker

I read my former writeup of Berbatov from around a year ago, based on his first season for United, and I will say that this season there isn't much I can question or criticize.

The question marks on how well he fits in with the particular United players around him and the style of play, he erased as well as he possibly could almost. His movement was better than ever, not least more flexible I thought and even physically he seemed stronger (maybe even faster though that could be my imagination) and consistently put in the hard work as well.

On top of that his well known brilliant flair and technical qualities remain well intact, it's just a fact though that he can never move as fast and attack the box as intensely as new rival Hernandez is doing and, despite in my view Berbatov's admirable efforts and even improvements this season, it has been looking very much so that it's Hernandez qualities that are best for the team.

37 (+9)

Alexandre Pato - Brazil - Milan

Forward

Talented enough to become the best striker in the world.

He was very fast right from day one at Milan and he's been getting stronger ever since.

He has had quite a lot injury issues every year, and with ensuing periods of not quite being in top condition it's arguably what's still holding him back somewhat.

He has tons of one touch ability, whether it's dribbling or passing, pretty good movement, his team-work I think is getting a little better but perhaps the decision making at times is still a little up and down resulting in maybe losing the ball too much sometimes, though I definitely wouldn't rule out it's just more apparent in the periods where after injury issues he is still searching for top form.

Then there could be an argument that those question-marks rear their ugly heads, maybe even exclusively, in his frequent rightish-forward role, where as in the center-forward position his talent quite simply destroys.

Wow the next 14 players or so were really tough to put in order. I would definitely be interested in some different takes on it once I get to number 21 who I'm pretty confident should be the highest.

Anyway it's time for:



36 (-3) Dani Alves - Brazil - Barcelona

Right-back/winger

Which one of Alves or Busquets is the more unpopular Barcelona player would make for an amusing poll? I'm actually not sure who I would vote for myself to be honest.

The Barcelona Alves quite simply terrorizes opposing teams with his non stop forward running that when placed into Barca's fantastic passing and movement is yet another devastating weapon that almost can't be dealt with.

Alves possess seemingly unlimited stamina and the kind of pace, and yes power too, that makes him incredibly dynamic taking advantage of and eating space as effective as almost anyone.

He is not really a good one on one defender which can be a liability for a fullback who will have that situation a lot near his own penalty area.

For Barcelona though, who are always dominating possession, that's more of a rarity though, and Alves will be more of right-winger who with his great stamina can usually defend well by being one of the more effective parts of Barca's very high ball-pressure that at an alarming rate always comes into effect immediately after their possession is over, and through that either winning the ball back outright, resulting in chances for themselves - Alves combined tackles/interceptions of 5.1 per game is definitely impressive - or simply one way or the other obstructing/hindering opponent counter attacks enough to reduce the danger before they even get going.

35 (-7)

Thomas Müller - Germany - Bayern München

Forward/Winger



I'm still a big fan of Müller's qualities. His impressive athletic ability, teamwork, great stamina, quality movement and superior versatility.

He still didn't show any signs of slowing down last season after his great 2009/10 breakthrough, this is one very durable player, and I think perhaps only a healthy Robben, even when constantly cutting inside and all, still inevitably forcing Müller more central, where there is less space for his pace to eat up, and more demand for technical ability, can at least reduce his effectiveness somewhat.

There is still his great movement though, and in between Gomez occupying space ahead of him central, and Robben dragging defenders with him cutting inside, Müller WILL find space to exploit with his runs no matter where it is, and his anticipation for getting to chances, including in the box, is pretty phenomenal.

More than great skills with the ball, where most this high up the list will be better, Müller score and create all the goals that he does with a combination of great running, outstanding teamwork and uncanny anticipation.

Just letting you know I held up my end of the deal. I finished my article just now and will post it in the EPL thread in just a bit. I might watch the first half of the Argentina U20 match first but it's coming.

Excellent.

I think I'll continue again for a bit, early or maybe around noon tomorrow.

For now though, here is at least one more player.



34 (+15)

Robin Van Persie - Netherlands - Arsenal

Forward

Van Persie as everyone I'm sure is aware of has exquisite technical skills and he can do more with his first touch than most do in a game.

Ok so that is clearly exaggerating, at least if we're talking about players on this list, and had I said, more than they can do with their second or third touches, that would indeed have been more accurate, but hey it just doesn't sound as good!

Anyway, as I'm also sure everyone is aware of, Van Persie has been plagued more than most by injuries and therefore missed a lot of games over the years.

The nature of those, the positive or the negative, the past, present and future I just can't be bothered to research or analyze, but I do know that in many ways it is indeed still what keeps him from rising even further up the list.

The great form that he eventually found last season did ensure a decent jump upwards though and it was a great reminder (sometimes you kinda forget when he doesn't play a lot) just what an excellent player (and goalscorer) Van Persie can be at his best.

I will say I have some doubts about his value as a top top player but since I can't put my finger on it, or put it into words I'm not even sure I should mention it.

It's not that he isn't good as a centre-forward. He has definitely proved himself there. He is still fast. Gotten pretty strong over his years in England, even it's not exactly a strong point of his. I don't really see anything wrong with his team-work either, so I don't know? Maybe it's something Arsenal related, a team, even if I'm not a fan of per se, still find myself rooting for in a lot of their games and with that, wanting them to keep up with MAN U not least, experience quite a bit of frustration.

So to help me out, anyone not thinking Van Persie is a great player out there, who will inform me why he is actually not THAT good after all?

It's just not right that I'm actually finding myself procrastinating this, but here is one player at least.




33 (+6)

Lisandro Lopez - Argentina - Lyon

Forward

One of my favorite forwards the last few years and a great warrior on the pitch.

Former footballer of the year in Portugal and in 2010 in France.

Lisandro works extremely hard for the team, is strong, skilled and dynamic. Always dangerous it seems.

When it comes to those particular characteristics he is maybe second only to Rooney at his best. Though it should be said, not at that level when it comes to different abilities with the ball, which of course matters too. I will add though, that I think he is quite the intelligent footballer, making all the right runs and passes. Including a nice one-touch arsenal that's at his disposal.

He can play both wide where from the left side he is excellent at cutting inside and be a threat with his right-foot and central, but has unfortunately had a little bit of injury trouble recently resulting in some periods at least, of not being in top condition.

Hard to come up with things not to like about Van Persie, he's such a class player.

As far as weaknesses that hold him back go? Well obviously there's his durability as you mentioned. Maybe not as strong as some others as well as you mentioned, but it's really tough to come up with major weaknesses.

I don't think he's in the very very top tier of strikers (with Rooney et al) but in the one just below that. Your ranking feels pretty close to accurate to me. IF he were fully fit and in form, he should be higher up the list. If you're talking his "value" he should probably be lower due to being made of glass. So where you have him seems fair.

His weaker side (right foot) isn't great, he's not entirely one footed but his unwilingness/inability to go to his right makes it a little easier on defenders.

Poor hearing leads to red cards in crucial CL ties?

Hmm maybe that he's a ****ing rapist?

lol

I meant on the field, ldo. But yeah, that'll work.

Bjørn, take these as a token of appreciation:



avatar-ready, obv.

Use the first one Bjorn!

Agree with the write up on RvP.

Sweet! Thanks.