Thanks for following.

And this thread is very confusing if one starts at the beginning. It did start out at as top 200 list but in retrospect that was horrible (the order and many of the inclusions at least) and I think never finished it anyway, instead turning into a 300 list to make up for mistakes or whatever the excuse was.

In the middle of the thread somewhere is the previous list's glorious top 50 runtdown (competition and scorepoints debate included) and starting at post 1450 with Kevin Doyle of all people is the beginning of this the current follow up now finally getting close to the top 50.

Lol scorepoints. Great updates bjorn, I'm enjoying reading it.

56 (-20)

Maicon - Brazil - Inter

Right-Back



Hmm this was the previous (December 2010) Maicon comment:

And I think it's been more of the same since then.

Mostly not as great as he used to be but still one of the the best (maybe even to the point where these awfully large gaps between fullbacks, that I'm glad I hereby made smaller, are justified or maybe not) who will have weeks where his body is fine and he'll be close to the Maicon of old which is something (Maicon marauding forward) even Serie A teams playing defensive have a very hard time dealing with.

Pretty sure I've seen many sentiments from Inter fans here in 2011 wishing they had cashed in after the 2009/2010 season where small Maicon signs of decline was well camouflaged by the team's success and Real Madrid for starters was offering big money.

55 (+3)

Juan Manuel Mata - Spain - Valencia

Winger/Attacking midfielder/Forward

Not the big jump that one might have been expecting, but apart from being the latest in a long history of Valencia's best players being linked to richer clubs, not that much has changed for Mata since the previous list.

There is nothing really not to like about Mata. He has the excellent qualities to do a good a job in different roles. Be it attacking wide or central. He is consistent. Has very good technical ability. Pace and team work. Sound decision making.

He dribbles a lot less than you think, even if I've always praised him for never being flashy just for the sake of it, only 0.7 successful dribbles per game is surprising, and I have a feeling it is among the lowest numbers for similar good players, and I think, coupled with my impression of him not individually creating for others like say his Valencia predecessor Silva, and not creating for himself at elite level either (if I'm correct that is he does have plenty of assists) is what is still holding him back here.

Then on the other hand, maybe that's all very unfair, and his intelligent play should be given even more credit if it makes the players around him better than the alternative individual showcasing.

That he is a good goalscorer also speaks in his favor. On a good team with better creative players than himself that might really come to forefront, for now though I just I think the attacking players ahead of him still, can generally do more on their own whether it's individually creating for others or scoring goals (not always of course) on their own.

54 (+63)

Arturo Vidal - Chile - Bayer Leverkusen to Juventus

Midfielder/Fullback

All action everywhere midfielder (and more) was one of the best players in the Bundesliga last season.

Two-way player in the truest sense of the word he amasses tackles, puts pressure on people defensively with his great work rate, and with the ball he is skilled and can both be dynamic and has good range of passing.

Interestingly (without looking too hard and there might be league issues) he is one the most fouled players I can find at 3.8 per game. More so than the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Suarez (his closest competitor might be Busquets actually ) and other than battling back and forth in midfield I do think it says something about the trouble he caused when coming forward. The raw scorepoints at 21 tell their story there as well (helped along by taking some penalties though) and that he then was the Leverkusen player who by some distance had the most passes per game (indicating deeper midfield play) I think very much indicate the amazing overall contributions everywhere on the pitch he gave to his team this season.

Let's hope this wonderful player won't get ruined at Juventus where there are very difficult challenges/problems to be tackled in a very hard environment.

53 (-7)

Santi Cazorla - Spain - Villarreal

Winger/Attacking midfielder

With a risk of sounding like a broken record I still like this description of this very likable (small and kind of round) player:

Cazorla rather uniquely somehow combine wing play, attacking midfielder and deeper lying playmaker into one very fine player.

The matchup with Mata a few places below is an interesting one.

I think Cazorla has more flair and creativity put into what he does with a football. He really is capable of true wizardry.

While obviously not a strong point for either I do actually think that he matches Mata defensively while Mata has better team work in terms of movement without the ball when it's his team that is in possession.

Pure wing play which would limit both, Mata with the more natural pace (and being the better athlete overall) can be the more effective I think even if Cazorla is definitely the better dribbler.

It's obviously very close. For the mighty Spain national team as well, who gets to be one of the main-reserves seems to be something of a coinflip between them, personally I guess I just have a weakness for what Cazorla can also do from deeper over Mata's clinical displays with and without the ball in the final third, where Cazorla then is more of a flair player.

translation: We dont play like Marcelo & Ivan but we have developed the sense of aesthetics. ( Ivan & Marcelo = Zamorano and Salas)

Those pics are embarrasing
After we lost to Venezuela a chilean commentator destroyed Vidal for worrying too much for his apperance

Four goal scorers to finish for tonight. Even if stopping at 49 is an odd place. These are very close, as in I could be changing the order around forever I think. Any definitive opinions out there who should be ahead of who?

52 (+83)

Hulk - Brazil - FC Porto

Forward/Winger

51 (+20)

Fernando Llorente - Spain - Athletic Bilbao

Striker

50 (+19)

Karim Benzema - France - Real Madrid

Striker

49 (+135)

Radamel Falcao - Colombia - FC Porto

Striker
----------------------------

First of all I can't deny it's tempting to put Falcao and Hulk even higher. Some the things they showed at Porto looked elite, but I also had to draw the line somewhere over how high players dominating on a truly dominating team in a lesser league, could go. There is no doubt they had exceptional conditions to shine. In fact if it had not been nicely coordinated with great displays in the Europa League as well (which I can follow), they would probably have been quite a bit lower.

But especially Hulk broke into whole new territory (right from early on which is why he jumped Falcao on the list the last time around) and looked like a goalscoring beast for Villas Boas, while Falcao to be fair already showed very good looking striker capabilities a few years ago.

I'm not really sure who should be ranked higher, but Falcao is proving himself as a complete striker, capable of both Chicharito-like poaching and quality teamwork, a truly scary combination that would prove a hit everywhere, where Hulk on the other hand, while versatile and all, both physically and technically gifted, just might not find those ideal right-forward cutting inside "now Hulk will destroy you with his powerful left foot", team build for those conditions everywhere, any season? I don't know to be honest but while what Hulk did was exceptional I won't just yet rule out it could be something of an outlier of a season where everything individually, team-wise. coaching-wise was simply perfect for him.

Benzema and Llorente are in a better league, and more proven overall, remains ahead of him then, even if Hulk, can he keep it somewhat up, and in a better league down the road, will contribute more to his team and potentially jump (okay SMASH!) them.

I really have no idea who should be ahead of Llorente and Benzema. Maybe Real Madrid don't know who they would prefer the most either with Llorente in the past being heavily linked but a move never materializing.

Benzema is one of the most naturally gifted strikers around. He really does have everything it seems. Including some on Llorente. There is strength combined with pace and considerable skills with upside. It's a popular narrative that the only thing holding Benzema back is between his ears. I don't know, maybe he hasn't been the most consistent in the past, but I haven't been able to find much wrong with his performances for a while now, he is just on a team with a lot of competition for attacking places which still limits his opportunities to show how good he really is.

Comparing him to Llorente even if technically they're close, I would still say Benzema is the better when it comes to things involving dealing with the ball, he is also faster, while Llorente might be the harder working, a good target man, even stronger, and of course better in the air.

It's close!

Speaking of Cazorla, some sources are reporting that he will sign for Malaga in the next few days for €20m.

Just about ready to start again.

I think it's definitely elite players the rest of the way. Just about all of them capable of great things if you look at their attributes. Who has the best of those attributes (including what it's enabled them to do in the past) weighed up against not least form, and all that's involved there, makes the order pretty tough, even if (and even if by form I'm made to look wrong sooner rather than later) opinions about who is better than the other feels a lot more definitive than not least the lower ranks.

Anyway, I should just get started. All input/argument will be much appreciated, there is still a final edit to go, and I have to say some of the order gives me a bad taste, just not quite bad enough to change it even more around, but maybe all I need sometimes is just a good push in the right direction.

OKAY
End of rambling - let's get started.

Bjorn,

Love the list, keep it up. Why is Vidic below Maicon on the list? Isn't it agreed that central defenders are generally much more valuable than fullbacks?

I really can't see Maicon being incrementally better than Vidic to offset the positional difference and 70 is awfully low for someone who is you say is the best central defender in the game (which I agree with) compared the second best RB (assuming you have Dani Alves higher?).

And this coming from someone who hates United.

I also think Ramires is too high on this list, but I admit I haven't seen too much of his play at Benfica to judge.

48 (-5)

Hernanes - Brazil - Lazio

Midfielder

This very elegant player couldn't quite keep his brilliance up towards the end of the season, but if what I remember is correct, that he came directly from a season in Brazil, without break, to play another one in Italy, I think that he is excused somewhat.

With a skillset that's resulted in deeper roles in Brazil, but attacking midfielder in Italy, he is fine all-around player.

He has great balance and control. Can read the game intelligently/creatively and his powerful shooting is a threat anywhere in the final third and on set pieces.

He also contributes defensively, even if in Italy he probably wouldn't be trusted, and hasn't been so far, in a deeper role without protection, but I think for teams valuing quality possession more than Lazio, that he is definitely an option there.

In many ways it's tempting to rank him higher, but stuff like playing for Lazio, not playing for the national team, almost can't help but hurt his case when looking at him in the same light as some of the best players from the best teams in the world.

edit: philipsaurus will get back to you, and others on player X vs X, after some writeups.

But I don't know if it's agreed that centrebacks are more valuable than fullbacks. Traditionally I think that's definitely been the case but I think recently a lot of people's has argued the case of fullbacks. Their importance to the team at least. Like Jonathan Willson.

Personally if just looking at their general qualities as individual players, I think players in both positions are probably (very generally speaking) overrated. I've made many posts about in this thread I think. Will try to dig up some.

47 (+28)

Sergio Busquets - Spain - Barcelona

Central midfielder

Has he finally found his ceiling on this list or will I continue having to give in and rank him better and better each time?

This was my most recent writeup on him and I'm not sure I have that much to add:

Well, there is his incredible ability to get fouled. He is the most fouled player for Barca. At 2.6 a game that's quite a bit more than Messi and I think he is one of the most fouled players in La Liga (without going through every team on whoscored.com) which I think speak volumes. About his diving obviously! He does of course see a ton of touches and without the movement of Xavi, he is definitely a target for opposition ball pressure, and winning freekicks is an important part of his defense against that.

edit: corrected numbers that I didn't remember precisely.

The first of the scorepoint champions!

And no, easy now (BREATHE) it's not the scarred little guy just yet.

Instead we have:

46 (+18)

Mario Gomez - Germany - Bayern München

Striker

Well around the time of the last list he had just finally won his battle against Miroslav Klose over precious Bayern playing time, but for the national team for an example, I'm not sure things are fully decided yet?

Here is what I said about his mighty rival Klose ranked 277:

Gomez had 42 goals in 39 starts across competitions last season. I can't deny that it would make some sense for numbers like that to result in a bigger jump when comparing his situation (and not a massive number of goals scored) around the last time of the list.

But that's also the player I've always maintained that he was. I had little doubt he would be a goalscoring machine once he got the minutes, so in some ways, from my couch, not all that much has changed really.

His attributes (even if somewhat improved the last few years) remain the same, and so does the limitations that make highly intelligent coaches such as Van Gaal and Löw, still consider alternatives, like a Miroslaw Klose, well past his best.

I'm just not sure, number of goals and all, that a player like that, good things and bad, should be ranked that much better.

Ok did some digging.

Most recent thoughts I could find on my ranking of centrebacks:

And new (and who knows if flawed) thoughts about fullbacks. Generally speaking:

looool i seriously was on lifetilt for a splitsecond when i saw ribery up there !!

Gomez must have been a beast last season.

Going by what people said about him last year he was pretty damn good.

He also done well in terms of scoring in the CL if i remember correctly considering they went out early.

---

Don't worry, we all know he's #1.

8 goals in 8 matches.

Let's do a group thing (do people prefer those over single-player comments btw?):

45 (+23) Eden Hazard - Belgium - Lille

44 (-15) Gareth Bale - Wales - Tottenham

43 (+22) Pedro - Spain - Barcelona


Well despite mostly operating similar territory on the pitch, these guys are very different.

Bale is the physical masterpiece that's gone from strength to strength the last couple of years (though maybe recently hit a stop?). He is so fast and so strong that he can terrorize defenders from the left wing.

Like the others he can also be a scoring threat with the ball on his own, but overall he is much more of prototypical winger eating space out wide and providing quality deliveries from out there, even if for Tottenham recently it's not been ideally taken advantage of in the box.

But that's something Pedro rarely does at all and it's not really on the forefront of Hazard's game either.

Pedro in many ways is much more of a forward. His movement is good and not least perfectly in tune with the quality skills around him, and he has the individual pace, control and finishing qualities to expertly take advantage of his situation.

As usual he also deserves some credit for his tireless participation in Barca's top notch defensive ball-pressure game and it will be interesting how it all (with and without the ball) in Guardiola's mind compare to new signing Alexis Sanchez.

Hazard makes a pretty good jump up the list and even though I've cooled on it somewhat, has the most upside of the three.

He has had another very good season but I'm not sure if he really improved all that much.

However, if he didn't already have several great dimensions to his game he wouldn't be ranked this high of course.

Hazard has excellent technical skills, especially the control that he has with some very quick feet. There is of course also great pace and I think unlike the other two (via good movement) there is so much quality overall that he can provide value, and be a serious threat, many places on the pitch rather than simply from out wide.

That he is fouled 3.6 times per game (one of the highest numbers I've found) says something about how difficult he can be to deal with.

That he isn't physically stronger than he is, is a weakness, but I do like his teamwork both defensively and with his team in possession where he is good at making himself a passing option.

France can be a pretty tough environment for an attacking player, so, despite the other two's leagues (including the CL competition of course) being stronger, maybe I shouldn't punish him for where he plays.

I quite like the group write ups.

Yeah I prefer them.

Easier to read I find.

Well this next player was one of the most difficult to rank. There are actually players a little bit further up the list that I would like to have him ahead of, but I just can't get myself to move him past the one player one spot ahead of him.

It's driving me a little nuts.

42 (+108)

Javier Hernandez - Mexico - Manchester United

Striker

41 (-16)

Kaka - Brazil - Real Madrid

Attacking midfielder

-------------------------

It's been said a lot, but it's accurate enough to be repeated time and time again, Hernandez is a born goalscorer.

Those striker instincts themselves are hard to put into words, but the lethal pace and movement that go along are obvious for everyone to see.

Maybe the fastest player around (we know he was the fastest at the World Cup at least) and in more short space and in more short time, than just about anyone, with his off the ball movements in the box, he can make the all important difference that is a goal.

He is quite simply one of the toughest players around to mark.

What else of his skills then? Well I think his strength is probably underrated, this is a compact player, and even if his technical skills don't compare favorable to most this high up the list, and that he has his limits, there is definitely real balance when he has the ball. And when he doesn't for that matter.

He also has good work rate, I think improving team-work overall and some edge to him which fits right into the United team,.

Good old Kaka then? Another tough player to rank. It's obvious his recent injuries hurt his ranking, It did the last time already, but if I keep him ahead of Hernandez maybe he should be ahead of other people too.

Anyway, he keeps from dropping further once again, by when finally coming back showing (even if not at his best and having declined athletically) that he is still an excellent player. Just like he had done before the previous list (and injury) at the World Cup.

Now there are other players with injury histories, including recently, ahead of him, but I think for those you can say that when healthy they definitely made great impact this season, Kaka even though he came back and looked all right, you can't really say the same.

group write ups plz, they are longer.
Suggestion, for 2012 make 26 world teams instead.
( team a, then team b, then team c, all the way down to team z )

Impressive Sir!