Positions don't matter, but "has the ball in his hands presently" vs "does not have the ball in his hands presently" is why Giannis and Ben Simmons can get attention from defenses and use their passing-- if either of them played with a traditional PG who should have the ball in his hands, they'd be worse.

It just makes no sense to turn strengths, defensive size at PG and playmaking at PG, into those things being under-utilized because Kemba is there. He's a fine gamble value wise, and your defensiveness is suggesting that I was attacking you in some way which I did not mean to.

Lonzo gives the ball up crazy quick.

He's not a true pg. Watch film.

I had no idea, I'll check it out

i thought about taking lonzo for all the reasons aejones is mentioning, and agree that he fits best as a primary distributor even if he's giving the ball up more quickly than a score-first guard typically would. a lot of his strengths is understanding how to direct players and initiate the half-court offense.

i just really don't like him.

aejones stop attacking people or vinivici may have to make an executive decision to boot you from the draft.

Things were already gross in this draft. We don't need more grossness.

Lonzo blows. Don't overthink it.

.

AssaniGOAT

No aejones is absolutely correct.

Lonzo does 1 positive thing on offense and thats direct the half court offense (granted he does it in a way different that players who actually pose some semblance of a threat wrt scoring the ball) and by wanting to play him off the ball he will successfully do 0 positive things on offense.

I don't even know what that means. You should draft for a combo of things (fit, talent, age).

I'm not drafting Lonzo if I'd drafted Rubio already. Similarly I'm not drafting Rubio if I'd drafted Giannis.

I know you can't answer this because of undrafteds but I'm generally curious as to which Spurs players can literally only pass and do absolutely nothing else of value on offense?

He's one year in. He can develop a more consistent open 3.

I don't see how guard version Draymond Green is a far off comp. You guys talk about fit but KAT at the 5 is ignored. He's going to get my two draftees open looks.

6.9 boards and 7.2 assists per/g as a rookie one-and-done.

Based on what exactly? His shot is absolutely broken and he cannot get it off in a fluid motion against NBA defenders.

Ricky Rubio never shot 45% from ft over an entire season

aejones is correct in everything hes saying right now(imo), and I think this phrase hints at a key reason for why many people don't conceptualize it clearly....

One of the many mythical narratives that people everyone bought into about Michael Jordan was "making his teammates better." It just got said enough times that after a while everyone repeated it as gospel without any real evidence. And we carried on this line of thought to other stars even to absurd degrees(announcers claiming that Kobe was "making his young teammates better" by showing them "how to be a winner" during his last seasons).

In reality, due to most superstars gaining value from ball dominance and there only being one basketball, teammates detract value from one another. And a much better way to conceptualize things is by asking yourself how much talent you're wasting do to superfluous skillsets, as every team is wasting some. Its not a binary thing("are Lonzo and Kemba a good fit or a bad fit") but rather a distinction of degree("we know that all superstar teammates detract some value from each other. Lets look at the specific case in question and determine how much.")




edit to add: the actual team(Lonzo/Kemba/KAT) is fine. I preferred Steph/Harden in round 1, and I think its clear Lonzo and Kemba lose some of their value playing together. KAT fits well with both on O, the D is worrisome. Its not one of the better teams but theres nothing egregious either. I'm not attacking the team as a whole, just commenting on this one aspect.

id really like a redo on flake over jingles, but no more bans

yea i mean your boy short worse than this guy

You mean the guy you drafted? Before him?

lol?

I feel like we had this exact conversation roughly this time last year and you were on the other side of it, being far too binary about everything and ignoring degrees. Glad to see you've come around.

Steve Nash tho

Kanman/Tar Heel skipped. Jmurder has til 11am restart

Jarrett Allen

<3

I'm confused -- so can Ben Simmons and Giannis make it on the same team, if you surrounded them with a 39.5% on 4.4PA, 44% on 5.7 3PA, 35% on 4.4 3PA, and 44% on on 5.2 3PA...

clearly ben simmons and giannis could make it if you surrounded them with shooters but if either of them could choose another top 10 asset to start a team with, theyd be each others #10 pick

Yea, I don't see why this is complicated, it's not that they can't, it's just that why would you. Think about the geometry of the court from a 2d view-- where are the players are that are guarding dudes who don't shoot outside of the restricted area? You can make guys pay with DHOs and flares and **** by using non shooters as a screener-- but that is them screening for shooters. Gotta have shooting. Best shot: layup. Second best shot: open 3. Next best shot: contested 3. This is pretty simple and can be quantified (yes, talent can overcome things, but why make it have to?)