Are you for or against government healthcare - Page 31 - Politics and Economics

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Are you for or against government healthcare

View Poll Results: Are you for or against government healthcare

I am for it

162 53.64%

I am against it

140 46.36%

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02-11-2012 , 01:10 AM

#751

Turn Prophet

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwes23

Germany has ZERO military budget (remember WW2), take away the $6 Billion or so the US gives them for national security and their socialist utopia crumbles.

lol, like $6 billion is a huge dent to Germany, with a GDP of over $3 trillion.

02-11-2012 , 01:16 AM

#752

willwes23

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

lol, like $6 billion is a huge dent to Germany, with a GDP of over $3 trillion.

Admittedly I just spewed a number there, but the point stands: Germany has zip for military/national defense spending. Moreover the socialist model will always collapse because power breeds corruption and socialism empowers a governing body to determine whats good for the collective.

02-11-2012 , 01:19 AM

#753

willwes23

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

The entire history of the industrialized world drastically begs to differ. Once upon a time, socialism had a specific definition. Now all it means is "parts of the public sector I don't like."

Is the United States not the most prosperous nation in the history of the industrialized world?

Founded on the idea of limited government and individual exceptionalism...

02-11-2012 , 01:45 AM

#754

Turn Prophet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by willwes23

Is the United States not the most prosperous nation in the history of the industrialized world?

Founded on the idea of limited government and individual exceptionalism...

...and tempered by a large public sector, a social safety net, and a number of mass-welfare programs. Seriously, do you think Europe is just a land of socialist robots who have no incentive to work?

02-11-2012 , 03:01 AM

#755

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,433

Also Japan, S. Korea, S. Africa, Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, Thailand, Brazil, Argentina, Canada, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Canada. All socialist slacker paradises goin to hell. Oh yeah throw in Mass and HI. Hell even Mexico has UHC now. Some under-65 people in the US are actually moving to Mexico for the health insurance.

Does FoxNews not keep you guys informed on these stories? Do they also not keep you guys informed that insurance mandates were the republicans' own idea from the early 90s until about 2008 when defeating all things Obama took over?

02-11-2012 , 03:03 AM

#756

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,433

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwes23

Breathless assertion in the face of all historical evidence ftmfw.

02-11-2012 , 03:12 AM

#757

leoslayer

banned

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,021

suzzer i must say even when we are on 2 diff sides of an issue i still love your posts!

02-11-2012 , 07:16 AM

#758

Brons

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So the assertion here is that the only reason Germany can make the lives of its citizens better is because they have zero military (false, btw) and someone else is paying for their defense? Sounds like a great strategy imo.

Also, I like how it will always collapse considering how they have been doing this since forever.

02-11-2012 , 08:13 AM

#759

adi

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

In Germany, Chancellor Otto von Bismarck created the modern welfare state by building on a tradition of welfare programs in Prussia and Saxony that began as early as in the 1840s, and by winning the support of business. In the 1880s he introduced old age pensions, accident insurance, medical care and unemployment insurance that formed the basis of the modern European welfare state.

i wonder how many know how old social welfare is in GER.

02-11-2012 , 09:05 AM

#760

YouR_DooM

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,829

This thread is always good for a laugh. Better than OOT imho.

edit: also, anyone who thinks countries with UHC are "socialist countries" need to get in check with reality. Never heard such BS.

edit2: I'm also convinced jogsxyz is a level tbh.

Last edited by YouR_DooM; 02-11-2012 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Some people should be kept from having children tho.

02-11-2012 , 09:23 AM

#761

adi

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,738

didn't suzzer say that before he went to france he thought the french couldn't own property? north korea can only dream about having this kind of brainwashing mastery.

02-11-2012 , 10:33 AM

#762

jogsxyz

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Japan peaked in December of 1989.

Single payer creates a disincentive to work. Long waiting lines for routine operations.

Americans need to travel overseas for affordable health care. It is cheaper than insurance.

02-11-2012 , 10:38 AM

#763

suzzer99

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Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,433

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brons

Yes I've noticed this seems to have become the excuse du jour lately. It used to be homogeneity until people realized Germany isn't really that homogeneous.

02-11-2012 , 10:40 AM

#764

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,433

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogsxyz

lol I knew someone was going to latch onto Japan. Feel free to explain how all the other countries I listed are on an unsustainable UHC path.

02-11-2012 , 10:43 AM

#765

YouR_DooM

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He won't. He always picks one single argument with no source he likes and will never explain the whole picture. Just look at the the San Francisco argument.

02-11-2012 , 10:48 AM

#766

jogsxyz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by YouR_DooM

edit: also, anyone who thinks countries with UHC are "socialist countries" need to get in check with reality. Never heard such BS.

.

UHC is socialized medicine. There must be a better way to provide health services.

02-11-2012 , 11:18 AM

#767

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,433

Lol epic last two posts

02-11-2012 , 11:40 AM

#768

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jogsxyz

Europe is going broke. They spend more money than they take in from taxes.

It's comments like this that are why I left this thread. It enrages me that you still think this is relevant. They might have higher taxes, but they aren't spending that money on healthcare. That is an absolute fact.

Your inability to even understand this point makes debating with you pointless.

02-11-2012 , 11:41 AM

#769

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Your inability to provide an argument beyond "that is an absolute fact" makes debating with you pointless.

And I mostly agree with you!

02-11-2012 , 11:44 AM

#770

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

Your inability to provide an argument beyond "that is an absolute fact" makes debating with you pointless.

And I mostly agree with you!

The healthcare spending per capita has been posted more than once in this thread. Seriously, what more do you want?

Do we need to post detailed financial documents for every country to back that up?

02-11-2012 , 11:50 AM

#771

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

The healthcare spending per capita has been posted more than once in this thread. Seriously, what more do you want?

How does that do anything at all to prove your point? Maybe show countries' UHC spending as a percentage of how much they take in from taxes?

Meh, I'm not going to argue this. I don't disagree with the point you're making, I just think you're doing an injustice to the argument with the way you present it.

02-11-2012 , 11:58 AM

#772

jjshabado

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

How does that do anything at all to prove your point? Maybe show countries' UHC spending as a percentage of how much they take in from taxes?

It's a simple point. The argument seems to go:

A: The US spends more on healthcare than the European countries.

B: They have higher taxes!

B's argument is stupid and irrelevant. There's no complexity there.

02-11-2012 , 12:55 PM

#773

surftheiop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,162

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

How does that do anything at all to prove your point? Maybe show countries' UHC spending as a percentage of how much they take in from taxes?

Meh, I'm not going to argue this. I don't disagree with the point you're making, I just think you're doing an injustice to the argument with the way you present it.

This has been shown like 30 times in the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UHC systems spend a smaller percent of government revenue on Health Care than the US does, please look at the chart. The US government spends 18.5% of our revenue on healthcare, this is a higher percent than "socialized" countries. So not only do we get crappier care and have tons of uninsured people, it actually is costing the government MORE money.

02-11-2012 , 01:04 PM

#774

Brons

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Homogeneity tho. Can't forget the blacks.

02-11-2012 , 01:57 PM

#775

bernie

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18,884

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouR_DooM

This thread is always good for a laugh. Better than OOT imho.

edit: also, anyone who thinks countries with UHC are "socialist countries" need to get in check with reality. Never heard such BS.

.

+1

b

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