Unions have a large say about how teachers are hired, fired, and compensated. If these conditions affect how good the schools are then the unions' policies are worth discussing in a debate about whether the unions should be broken up, even if Walker hasn't said it.

I didn't comment on the SAT scores, just the idea that public schools don't have money.

How much money does a private school cost? How much money does each kid get on average on the public system?

Here's my short TR of the MoveOn Pro-Union type thang that was on Saturday in San Fran.

I went to it for a few reasons, to see how much support it would get, to see what kind of people would turn up, because I generally support it, because Beck was saying it was a conspiracy, and to work on my photography skills.

All in all it was a pretty docile crowd. Some guy was trying to lead chants but they weren't really catching on. I'd say maybe 1000-1200 people.




There was a only one Hitler reference but it was towards Obama. It was a booth 2 guys had set up to convince people that Obama was clinically insane and should be removed from office according to the 25th amendment. I talked to one of them for 5 minutes and he seemed normal although I could tell by the way he answered my questions that he was a pretty angry person and was constantly having to defend himself from people. And he didn't really say anything.


There was also an argument between a Truther and a dude with a Gandalf staff that was entertaining to watch. I stood next to them and listened for 5 minutes or so and it was much of the same babble as the 25th amendment guy.



All in all the whole event was a sham. Half the crowd was there because they supported it, a quarter because they wanted to be a part of something, and the other quarter were trying to recruit people to go to other functions for different causes.

Yep by demanding that the rich just fork over more taxes instead of the ridiculous pensions and things they get. We needed unions 40 years ago when sweat shops used to work people to death for 60 hours a week for no pay. That doesn't happen anymore. See ya. CA wouldn't be in the spot they are if they have a Gov like Walker 10 years ago.

Stop pretending this has anything to do with budgetary concerns.

I like how people assume every employer is really nice and there are never any safety concerns in the workplace anymore.

In public sector jobs?

Yeah obviously it's easier to balance govt. budgets when public sector unions have collective bargaining agreements, the more issues the public sector unions can collectively bargain on, the easier it is the balance govt. budgets.

What does requiring public unions to vote annually for recertification have to do with a balanced budget? Because it seems more like a veiled attempt at union busting.

kids should unionize for higher grades

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/the-r...ublic-schools/

Again you're correct. It's obviously easier to balance govt. budgets when public sector unions exist then when they don't.

a politician with an alterior motive you say? *gasp*

Mayor Bloomberg disagrees

Yes Mayor Bloomberg's budget is in fine order, public sector unions with wide ranging issues they can collectively bargain on is working out well in term of the budget:

New York City Budget Deficit Next Year May Widen by $2 Billion, Page Says

Quote:

New York City’s projected budget deficit for fiscal 2012 may widen by $2 billion, to $4.5 billion, because cuts in state aid may be greater than forecast, Budget Director Mark Page said.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s proposal last month to cut the city workforce by 10,000 as part of plan to save $1.6 billion during the next 18 months may not be enough to close the gap, Page told the City Council’s Finance Committee today.

“The reality that we’re facing is that the future could be considerably worse,” Page told the council members. “This is something we are solemnly worried about.”

The most populous U.S. city has a $65 billion budget projected for fiscal 2012, which begins July 1. Bloomberg last month cited increased pension costs and loss of $850 million in federal school aid in proposing to reduce the city’s 300,000- worker payroll, including more than 6,000 firings. About 4,000 cuts will be accomplished by attrition.

I wonder if he mentions a plan to deal with rising pension costs in that link I posted.. Probably no way to find out.

His plans have got to work they always have. I mean he states:

Yet the problem is not unions expressing those rights; it is governments failing to adapt to the times and act in a fiscally responsible manner.

Then for 2012 NYCs budget shortfall is expected to more than double. His plan is working well. Granted that if New York State and New York City didn't have the public sector unions their budget deficits would be even higher.

He's actually scary right from my experience. Northern Michigan is full of small private schools. Some have been around for years. Others implode in a few years as a result of the poor teachers. My kid brother and sister went to one that imploded. The transferred shortly before the implosion when it became obvious that they were waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind the learning curve.

I know, small sample size, blah blah. I've seen it happen first hand. It can and does happen.

Do you think it helps that they are in a classroom with 15-25 other children whose parents care enough about their education to pay out of pocket for schooling?

Do you think teachers are the dominant variable in this situation?

Milwaukee students rank below average on national science test : Assessment compares high-minority, high-poverty urban districts

My pony might be real slow on this one.

Quote:

Among 17 urban school districts that participated in a national science assessment in 2009, Milwaukee students in fourth and eighth grades scored below the average performance of their respective peers attending public schools in other large cities, according to a new report.

On the National Assessment of Educational Progress, also called the Nation's Report Card, Milwaukee's fourth-graders ranked 11th out of 17 urban districts based on the percentage of its children who scored at or above a basic level of science achievement.

.....

In the latest science results:

• 44% of MPS fourth-graders scored at or above basic (32% scored basic; 12% scored proficient), compared with 55% of students in large cities and 72% of students in public schools nationally.

• In eighth grade, 28% of MPS students scored at or above basic (23% basic, 5% proficient), compared with 44% of students in large cities and 62% of students nationally.

• MPS students learning English in fourth grade scored at or above basic at a higher rate than their peers who are not learning a new language at that grade, 47% to 44%, respectively.

In previous urban-district assessments:

• The Trial Urban District Assessment for 18 districts in math, released in late 2009, showed that Milwaukee's fourth-grade students outperformed Detroit; Cleveland; Washington, D.C.; and Fresno, Calif. In eighth-grade math, Milwaukee students outscored only Detroit.

• The Trial Urban District Assessment for 18 districts in reading, released in spring 2010, showed that Milwaukee's fourth-graders outperformed Detroit, Cleveland and Philadelphia, while its eighth-graders outperformed Detroit; Fresno, Calif.; and Washington, D.C.

A few urban districts posted more promising results on the latest science test. Austin, Texas; Charlotte, N.C.; Jefferson County (which covers Louisville) in Kentucky; and Miami-Dade in Florida had higher science scores at both grades in comparison with the average scores for large cities in the nation. San Diego, Boston and Houston saw one grade level score higher than the average for large cities.

Do Milwaukee teachers deserve a raise? Is merit pay warranted?

In either sector.

I've acknowledged that Walker is seeking substantial changes. Whether or not I agree with the ethics of what Walker is doing is irrelevant to the the claim you're apparently making th that what Walker is doing has nothing to do with balancing Wisconsin's budget. It has a lot to do with it. Put another way busting the public sector unions is one way for government to gain control over it's costs.

I've worked with union members in public shipyards (Navy). I'm pretty sure shipyards are about as dangerous as you are going to find for public sector work. The unions didn't have anything to do with work conditions/safety in the yards.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...av=hcmoduletmv

Bill Gates thinks Pay for Performance is the way to go.