Paul, Clovis and other posters recently have shown that they really, really handle being called out poorly.

Really excellent BBC series "The Vietnam War" (2017) has been on recently. 10 years in the making, 10 episodes. Really gives an in depth telling of the whole thing from beginning to end, interviews with people from all sides, telling the story of the war, the reasons, the situation politically at home and Vietnam, peace movement all over the World.

Quite an eye opener.

The idea that doubting someone who is saying something that isn't true(that they later admitted was not true) is uncouth behavior and must not be done is like, how Donald J Trump is President. Perfect example.

Not ****ed at all. Notice who was right.

Since Dom later admitted he misremembered, does that mean he owes himself an apology?

Like a lot of people like to joke about mansplaining and white privilege, but that's this **** right here. White dudes are conditioned to be treated with respect whenever they run their damn fool mouths, no matter what they say.

One "pics or it didn't happen" and we're off into a 4 page demand for an apology by PROXY because of insufficient elder respect.

I don't get the long game here for these guys. They are going to end up in the same labor camps as the Maoist teens if the right wins, but if the left wins they are going to be way down the guillotine priority list, the blade will be all dull and gunked up by the time we come for them.

Get some convictions, then have the courage of them. Way better for the blood pressure than Max(saying single payer is good) and Clovis(saying Sarah Palin is racist) and Paul(this thread) having absolutely insane meltdowns over NOTHING. Have your insane meltdowns over substance. It's cathartic.

The biggest offense of calling Dom a liar itt was completely overlooked. Either it was just missed or Dom's reputation was never really a big part of this.

Like nobody thinks Dom actively made that **** up because he's a dyed in the wool Reaganite culture warrior, the accusation was always that he was misremembering and exaggerating because of precisely the propaganda campaign we were talking about! It's not even an attack on character!

No idea who Paul D. is, but he is laying waste to the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty in this thread.

ah thank you for clearing that up. Yes the war protesters were on the right side of history. Didn't really require it to become history either.

I apologise for suggesting you having an issue with 'baby killers'. I thought better of you for a moment but it does make a lot more sense that you would have been absolutely ****ing fine with it if it had happened. Of course if it did happen at all it would have been just a tiny fringe element because, to repeat myself again, the majority of lefty/liberals are reasonably decent people.

Dom didn't admit it was entirely untrue. He in fact verified that it actually happened but not in the exact way he thought it did. Neither of you seem to grasp this simple concept people can tell the truth as how to they have perceived without false memories. There's a wide difference in age withered down perceptions of reality and false memories.

Neither Dvaut or you even attempted to get to the root of the matter, but cared more about optics in how our side is viewed. That's what is ****ed, dude. Like if Dom turned out to be a 100% honest dude, what do you think Dvaut or you accomplished? That you got people to cheer against Max and me. One thing that is in common between Max and I is we don't give a damn about petty stuff like that. So ahead and shout at us lol.

lol this is just amazing

Go ahead and explain why that is amazing. I suspect you will give some sort of stupid explanation, because neither are those statements conflict with one another.

I'm curious - given that this thread, summed up briefly, was
- Fly/DVaut express skepticism about soldiers being subject to anti-war harassment
- you say "no it's real, it happened to my vet neighbors"
- turns out "neighbors" is "neighbor" and "anti-war harassment" was "bored hooligan teenagers"

...what exactly do you find the "hypocrisy" here to be?

and really dom wasnt tarred and feathered. he was treated pretty damn well.

I'm with you on how young some were but I have a lot more sympathy for many of the older troops, especially the conscripted ones. They were the victims in this war as well and although I agree we are all responsible for what we do, it's not as trivial as being fully responsible for an informed, consensual choice.

You know who immediately calls into question memories as false? Gaslighters. When there's a reasonable alternative to 100% made up memories.

Not entirely untrue lol gtfo.

!!!!

DVaut got to the root of the matter BEFORE Dom's post!


DVaut and I were the people who cared more about the optics about how our side is viewed? What the **** are you talking about


Yeah but he didn't. I was right. Again. What's my secret?

LOL every ****ing post you've made has been about the petty stuff.

Absolutely not. It's good for the right if people believe that that the liberal/left behave badly, call people 'baby killers' etc.

Tackling the myth is excellent.

Paul, man, I was right. You can't keep on skirting the issue. Dom said a statement that was objectively not true, I expressed skepticism, subsequent events validated that skepticism.

This is what substance is, dip****. Politely nodding is not substance.

We're allowed to be results orientated when Dom ended up changing his story afterward. When more evidence was brought in, it was shown he was wrong!

had time to talk to my father ( hon discharge/ army) and my step dad ( deserter, fled the usa in apr 1970, settled in toronto, still there ). they don't recall any of what i remember happening to both of them.

yes they remember marching in storrs, providence, albany, and someplace up in new hampshire, and they remember it getting violent a couple times. so our memories of those times is quite different. startlingly so. i guess just because i remember it, doesn't mean it happened. apologies.

Goofy and Fly (although I have him ignored, so I can only see his posts when someone else quotes him):

lol I admitted I miss-remembered? No I didn't. I told you what my mother remembered of the same event. Instead of Baby Killer she remembers Baby Raper and Go kill some Gooks. I still remember Baby Killer, but I did admit I could be wrong - because, you know, memories can be faulty.

I said there were neighbors who had their houses vandalized and I told you about one of them...my mother confirmed that there were more than one - just like I said.

What exactly did I miss-remember?

I have never said anything about who did the vandalizing...Dvaut and Fly seem to think I'm making something up in order to **** on liberals, for some reason. Odd, since I am a liberal.

And because they both have read that the "liberals spitting on Vets" narrative never happened, that means that my experience can't possibly be true.

So I'm either a liar or I have Alzheimer's early, I guess.

Paul is laying waste to the hypocrisy of this thread by calling out those who are being intellectually dishonest. He's been trying for a day now to have a conversation with Dvaut but Dvaut won't engage honestly.

No I didn't! WTF is wrong with you people? What is different from my original story to what I said after speaking to my mother?

Lol, I'm talking about you caring more about "Dvaut and I are always right despite evidence proving that we might be slightly right than we think" than saying "Okay. Dom was telling the truth as how he sees it."

I have admitted where I was wrong several times. Whilst Dvaut and you make far out stretches with whitesplaining/white culture and the very few devices you two actually possess in your soul to argue. Dvaut and you are hacks who enjoy these petty games you play here instead of forming genuine levels of communication. Your masks are slipping to more than Max and I.

I respect you enough to know you know there's a difference between slightly right/wrong and entirely right/wrong.

THIS is the real issue we've been trying to discuss. But others in this thread seem to think all that's important is who is right and who is wrong. It's about as meaningful a discussion as who should win Miss OOT this year. "I'm right, you're wrong hahaha!"

So I ask both Fly and DeVaut, and anyone else in this thread who seems to think I've vascillated:

Is it possible that both the narrative you are putting forward about vets being spit on by libs being false, and my story, can both be true? And why can't you engage in this discussion without invective?