You cant conflate multi culturalism with problems with present mass immigration.

A lot depends on what you mean by multiculturalism. Its a term like 'political correctness', where both sides accuse the other of 'no-true-Scotsmanning' or 'straw-manning' because neither actually agree with one another on the actual definition of the word, so they just talk past each other and the debate never really gets off the ground.

If, by multiculturalism we mean pluralism and multiracialism where people from all different ethnic backgrounds are treated equally and treated the same, as long as they're expected to assimilate to the core culture of the host nation then I'm all for that.

Then you need to define what the "core culture" of the UK is.

Respect for, and a willingness to abide by principles held as valuable to the host society.

Things like respect for the rule of law, freedom of speech and expression, tolerance of homosexuals, equality of the sexes and so on and so forth. Unfortunately, a great many people from Muslim countries do not feel this way. They come from a different culture where all of the above aren't valued in the same way that they are in the UK.

We have every reason to be discerning about certain kinds of immigrants, and have every reason to be more accepting of immigrants from countries with similar, or compatible cultures to our own, like the US, Canada, Italy and Poland than we should be of immigrants from Pakistan and Somalia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/j...tanks.religion

In addition, culture also encompasses more practical things.

Take the fact that 85% of Somali women in the UK are unemployed. This is because in Somali culture, women don't work. Women working is viewed in Somali culture the same way that we'd view children working here. Its not on.

That's an issue, because British culture is predicated on the idea that all able-bodied adults ought to be able to work and of course, things like house prices and the general income required to sustain a family is predicated on two earners.

As such, Somali women are a drain on the UK economy. They take out far more than they put in. In practical terms, we simply need to be aware of these things and act upon them if we're to build a stable society. Or, the Somali community needs to adjust to live and prosper in the UK. They have no rights to insist upon living free from resentment whilst they live a lifestyle different from, and a burden upon, the rest of UK society.

You should take a longer term view of immigration.

Of course first generation immigrants have trouble and are sometimes resistant towards adapting to their new country but subsequent generations will be quite different, and there's no particular reason to think that your chosen example of Somalian women will have daughters and grand daughters who will be any different to, for example, the current second or third generation British Asian women who work in a wide range of jobs alongside everyone else.

This is the problem with most political discussions.

Why should I assimilate to whatever it is you call your culture?

This post has so much WOW factor.

WOW

Can we deport people born here who don't believe this either?

The official church of Britain campaigned against gay marriage and got a legal exception just for themselves.

Hate speech is a criminal offence, along with "incitement to violence" speech. With new stricter laws getting passed now in response to Charlie Hebdo ironically.

Despite being supposedly illegal there isdiscrimination women face on things like unequal pay and hiring factors like chances of pregnancy and so on.

These core principles of Britain seem to be contradicted by laws passed here, or the lack of enforcement of laws passed here.

I'm not a fan of the Christian church either and nor do I agree with them on these issues. Although I'll readily admit that their threats are far slighter than those of Islam.

That's a bad thing, because it is of course entirely subjective what constitutes 'hate speech'.

Having laws against active 'incitement to violence' is fair enough.

Women are paid equally with men for the same work. That's why women earn more than men on average up to the age of 30. Many then choose to have children and thus the average earnings of women as a group drops.

If women were discriminated against and earned less than men for the same work, then men would struggle to get jobs as women would do equally productive work for less money and out-compete them.

I agree, and Britain is far the worse for it. This is part of the reason I aim to emigrate to the United States as soon as I can. Happily enough I'm now working in a media company with an NYC branch which I could realistically transfer to after having built up some experience.

I don't hold out much hope for Britain's future I'm afraid.

Lol hilarious how fuzzy these core principles of Britain become when it is a non Muslim breaking them.

Christians break one core value, but Muslims are worse. Somehow. Because the powerful majority believing one thing is obviously less of a problem than a powerless tiny minority believing the same thing. That's how problems work right, it's inverse to power.

Subjective free speech issues good, but only until you say things subjectively wrong under incitement of violence laws as if the ****ing student union worker writing #killwhitey is a problem that needs to be stopped by prosecuting her. No one following a twenty something on twitter is going to kill whitey because she wrote a hash tag.

Also you outright agree with discrimination against women.

The sooner you **** off to America the better for the country. You don't match our British values. By which I mean the ones you named when asked, ironically.

Well said Phill. If Britain ever became dominated by people who think like him, I'd be the one emigrating.

Can you provide me with an example of a non-Muslim breaking these core values where I'm in support of them?

Are you seriously suggesting that Christian beliefs are having a greater negative impact on British society than Muslim ones? Because if so, its fair for us to tot them up, which I'd be happy to do if you really do want to go down that route.

You seem to be losing your marbles a little bit here. I haven't once spoken on the issue about this slightly strange woman being prosecuted for her 'kill whitey' hashtag. As it happens, I defend her right to free speech.

However, I do wonder if you'd offer someone the same protection that you'd (rightly) offer her if they were to start a hashtag that was something similarly horrid like #killall******s.

No I don't.

Could you provide evidence of this accusation please?

I do have a dangerously open mind, I plead guilty to that.

This is going to look weird as I'm editing on my phone in the app. Bold is your own words. Quotes to discuss more pulled out at the bottom.

"Are you seriously suggesting that Christian beliefs are having a greater negative impact on British society than Muslim ones? Because if so, its fair for us to tot them up, which I'd be happy to do if you really do want to go down that route."

Muslims don't make laws. They don't force me to do anything or live my life in any way.

Christians almost stopped gay marriage. They have brought in anti blasphemy laws. They regulate access to porn. They limit my free speech.

To go vaguer from beliefs, anti terrorism laws have harmed Britain's several orders of magnitude worse than actual terrorism.

Muslims aren't the problem in Britain. Christians are.

"However, I do wonder if you'd offer someone the same protection that you'd (rightly) offer her if they were to start a hashtag that was something similarly horrid like #killall******s."

That's a strange thing to wonder. I wouldn't criminalise free speech on twitter as so called excitement to violence speech or hate speech.

This is where I'm fairly certain that you're simply saying this in order to maintain your politically correct doctrine and because you associate being Muslim with being brown, because the counterargument is just so obvious.

Nevertheless, I'll proceed on the assumption that you're being sincere, so here goes:

Muslims would do *all* of the things that you object to Christians doing if they could. All the evidence suggests that the only thing stopping them is a lack of numbers.

Lets take a look at countries where they actually do have the numbers to enforce their religious/political views shall we?

For goodness sake, just look at this World Map of the countries where its actually illegal to be gay.

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-whe...ty-is-illegal/

When surveyed, literally 0% of Muslims (in Britain!) were completely accepting of homosexuality as a lifestyle choice (and this is being reported in the ultra-left Guardian of all places).

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/m...-homosexuality

Free speech is banned in almost all of the Muslim world, with strict blasphemy laws enforced from the law as well as vigilante justice (look at the bloggers murdered in Bangladesh) at street level.

Now how can you possibly object to people finding Islam a repulsive religion and wanting less of it in the country in which they inhabit?

Don't engage rasta. Come on guys. It never ends well.

Dude its more closed than Woolworths.

Rastamouse, The Guardian has always been a Liberal paper, so it shows how "open" your mind is that you call it ultra-left.

I think you'll fit in perfectly in a red-neck American state.

lol at the guardian being ultra-left, in 2015 it's centre at best.

Not an argument.

Address the points I've made in response to Phil regarding Islam/Christianity please.

Haha, yes. Don't address the fact that a survey of British Muslims found that literally 0% were tolerant and accepting of homosexuality of course!

I personally think its disgraceful that the Guardian even reported it to be honest. Frankly, I think the morally righteous thing to do would be to simply bury their heads in the sand, and pretend it wasn't true.

Where's your dimwit's survey? I work with a youngish British practising Muslim, who's now quite happily working alongside, and socialising with, an openly gay guy. You're a bigoted clown.

Apart from the Sun, Express, Daily Mail, Telegraph.

I know you are dangerously open minded an all, its definitely very on the edge to be a mouth piece for the above.

Read the article I've just posted. Failing that, as Ayaan Hirsi Ali said, just go Google it.

I have a great friend of mine who is an ex-Muslim. Disowned by his family at 19 not because he himself was gay, but because he no longer believed in the Qu'ran and told his parents he was happy to hang out with gay people.

I went to school in a white minority area of London. The Muslims there (including the son of the then head of the Muslim council of Britain) all (barring one, who remains a great friend of mine) supported the attacks on 9/11 and the Taliban's actions in Afghanistan including their treatment of women and homosexuals. I've got anecdotes too pal.

Lets see if Phil addresses the points I've made regarding his hatred of Christianity and the reasons for it, and see whether he admits to a hatred of Islam when they do the exact same thing.

Or, will he fail to surprise us all at openly having a complete double-standard.

And the Guardian, BBC, Independent, Channel 4, The Mirror, Buzzfeed/almost all forms of internet-based new media are completely card-carrying left-wing institutions.

The UK press has a range of papers ranging from hard-left to hard-right, all with an agenda and an allegiance. Some of them agree with you, some of them will disagree with you.

You aren't open-minded sir. You have a blacklist of news institutions where you'll bury your head in the sand and shout 'lalala I'm not listening' if they report something you'd rather weren't true, and a whitelist of leftist media outlets, like the Guardian, that you quite like, and thus claim are a domain of perfect integrity and objectivity.

We have hard right in mainstream newspapers: the DM and the Express.

Hard left isn't represented in the mainstream; the closest it has is the Morning Star.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAH