The discussion about the teacher has been entirely derailed by the focus on whether the problem she perceived exists.

That is not at all the issue.

The issue is her reaction to the problem. Its not invest more in education so we can have the infrastructure and systems to overcome such problems, no, its vote for a bunch of bigoted *****. Its pretty indicative of her biases, predispositions and character that she chose the latter option.

Seriously no props for my sick read?!?

but also our reaction to her reaction to under-resourcing

Focusing on how we differ rather than trying to get a consensus around better resourcing is poor politics imo. She may well be a potential Labour supporter if she can be persuaded they will actually do something about it.

Excellent bet.

Your round I believe. I'll have a pint.

thank you chez.

happy to buy any 2+2er a pint with my spoils.

My biggest problem with the last election was not a single person that mattered stood up for migrants. People who enhance our culture, who grow out economy, who studies show fund public services by paying more in taxes than they receive, who actually make public services like the NHS run (for fun go look up the percent of non British born doctors and nurses we employ), who commit less crimes than natives on average, who are shown to not drive down wages and who are shown to want to integrate into our country and enhance it.

But **** no, not a single major party wanted to debate on the facts. So you have idiot teachers who don't understand how the ****ing world works so votes ukip. Even my probably racist friend was pro migrant anti ukip. Cos even he got it. There are negatives but not only can we get past them they are massively outweighed by two positives.

Thanks to certain elements of the British medja its electoral suicide to be seen as pro immigration.

It's also what UKIP wanted as the main focus of the election which along with the media makes it a suspect election strategy.

I wish I could say that's strategy was the main reason all the players all kept quiet but I'm cynical about them even being pro-immigration to any significant extent.

I think most people itt and indeed she is smart enough to realise that whoever she voted for wouldn't have lead to more spending to solve the problem.

As there are only two ways to solve the problem (more money or less kids) she chose the latter. I'd also re-iterate this was a rock-solid Tory seat.

Her exact reasoning was that a decent proportion of the kids could hardly speak English, and were just here for 3 years while their parents got an education.

Also fwiw she is one of the most left-wing liberal right-on types this side of Jeremy Corbyn. I nearly fell off my bar stool when she told me she voted UKIP.

What qualifies you to say that I'm qualified?

Just be honest. Say "I disagree with you" and be clear that you're speaking from emotion and opinion. Just like me.

Well the latter rather implies the former, does it not?

I'm telling you that I don't consider my humble languages teaching to carry anywhere near the weight of responsibility of a proper teacher who is charged with not only nurturing the minds of the young, but also enabling them to pass exams required for them to gain the skills required to earn money and as such, independence.

I'm quite convinced that whilst you say that you were a 'teacher' of sorts, you never held a position of the kind I've described. That's what I mean by a 'proper teacher'.

The British media (in particular the coercively state-funded BBC) have desperately been trying to push a pro-immigration message for years.

The problem is that this has run straight into the grim reality of skyrocketing housing prices, fewer jobs and lower wages, a strain on the NHS, fewer places in overcrowded schools, increased rates of crime, incidents of child rape and police cover-ups along with all the other problems that come with overpopulation that quickly intrude upon the lives of normal people.

And when those that try and defend this actually find themselves committed to defending nonsense positions like saying that children who can't communicate with the teacher at school is actually a good thing, it all gets quite tough to sell.

This just isn't true Chezlaw. Some do, many don't. Certainly we have every reason to be infinitely more selective about those we let into this country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...0-billion.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali...United_Kingdom

Yup. More and more people are running into precisely this phenomenon.

There's no need for anyone to be a right-wing traditionalist to see the problems.

The simple fact is that the poor and working-class have indeed been hit hardest by open-door immigration. Higher housing prices, longer NHS waiting times, fewer school places, fewer jobs, depressed wages, your teacher friend struggling to keep the pace of learning going whilst having to navigate a tonne of language barriers.

These are all problems caused by overpopulation that impact primarily on Labour's traditional working-class vote.

You can insist that these problems are caused by a lack of funding rather than overpopulation, but its really just the same thing. It goes without saying that if we somehow had a tonne more money that we could spend it on looking after whoever we like.

But the reality is that we don't have an infinite supply of government funds and resources. Ultimately, there is a limit to the number of people this country can handle. We've gone past it and we're starting to feel the strain (well, the poor, not us of course.)

If they actually pushed back straight away it would have been a debate. It only seems to be political suicide because no one was pushing back at any point so the narrative was set in stone long before the votes were cast.

I doubt they win and maybe dont even do better but labour should have been on favour of reforming immigration to fit the reality than try and pretend reality can fit the system we have now.

Once it became a debate on numbers of migrants the debate was lost.

Housing prices are high by design. It's used to increase gdp. Housing prices can be dropped tomorrow with new policies to build homes if they wanted to. Homes built by migrants.

Immigrants create jobs and increase wealth.

The NHS is run by immigrants for natives.

Immigrants don't commit crime at a higher rate than natives.

The child rape cases involved native brits.

This is what I mean, the debate was lost so the ignorant like rastamouse here spout bull**** proven wrong repeatedly.

Low interest rates and high house prices, who would have thunk it?

Housing prices aren't increased by low supply and increasing demand? Lol.

This is factually untrue for many immigrant groups. Read the statistics I've provided about the Somali community in the UK as well as immigration from outside the EU.

This idea that immigrants create jobs just isn't true, no matter how many times you might try and repeat it. They do benefit the already wealthy by depressing wages and providing cheap services however.

The NHS is completely unsustainable in its current model and haemorraging around £2 billion a year. We can't afford the best cancer drugs, thousands of people die in NHS hospitals all the time as a result of what should be preventable infections and we're increasing the demand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...-of-quins.html

[QUOTE='[Phill];48335473']Immigrants don't commit crime at a higher rate than natives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a...United_Kingdom

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tions_2012.png

Pakistanis that live in isolated enclaves, make no effort to integrate with their communities and target white-skinned children are not native Brits in any real sense other than a technicality.

If I were to live in Ghana for 10 years and be granted Ghanaian citizenship after having worked in the country for a British company within an expat community, you'd have no qualms about calling me British and rolling your eyes at my claiming to be a native Ghanaian. Same thing if I were to have children with a white, British-born lady there.

Secondly, they got away with what they did for so long because of a culture of political correctness (read Alexis Jay's report) and an unwillingness to face up to the fact that multiculturalism had proved a devisive and destructive failure.

But of course, its not your kids under threat.

Don't want to engage with the truth? Well, fine. Enjoy your time slating democracy and sitting in opposition.

I would love too hear why your friend is probably racist .. did he tell you he preferred white chocolate to dark chocolate? Unreasonal amount of milk in his coffee?

The hate and scorn this teacher is getting is ridiculous. Yes teachers don't know how the world works.. they like 95% don't give a **** about politics or how the world works. Their job is too pass ofsted reports and adequately prepare their pupils to pass exams. They are not Politicians. To conclude she is a bigot or racist because of her reasoning to vote UKIP is naive

Kudos to Chezlaw for being the only calm and reasonable guy batting for the left

hahaha quality. **** just got real around here.

But not smart enough to realise that UKIP wouldn't get elected to solve the problem.

This idea that there are classrooms full of kids in primary school who are the children of adults in 3rd level education is bull****. They will be paying 9k per year will have to fund themselves. Those that are children of students will also presumably be kids of parents with decent English.

However she voted wouldn't have made a difference, it was a protest vote. The Tories have over 50% of the vote in her constituency, so even if all the other parties rigged the vote they couldn't have won.

[QUOTE=Rastamouse;48335646]Housing prices aren't increased by low supply and increasing demand? Lol.



This is factually untrue for many immigrant groups. Read the statistics I've provided about the Somali community in the UK as well as immigration from outside the EU.

This idea that immigrants create jobs just isn't true, no matter how many times you might try and repeat it. They do benefit the already wealthy by depressing wages and providing cheap services however.



The NHS is completely unsustainable in its current model and haemorraging around £2 billion a year. We can't afford the best cancer drugs, thousands of people die in NHS hospitals all the time as a result of what should be preventable infections and we're increasing the demand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...-of-quins.html

Supply of houses is kept artificially low and demand is culturally higher than it should be (though would be high anyway).

How do you think jobs are created? By economic growth. Migrants create growth. And no study after study shows that migrants only depress a small number of jobs a small amount, which is offset by relative wealth benefits equaling it out before wages stabilise back. This is especially true with an artificial floor on wages thanks to the min wage.

That graph doesn't show what you seem to think. Use your words child.

That technicality of them being British is the fact that they are British. A pretty significant technicality.

Racist jokes sometimes. But we are in the north east so it's not clear if we're talking racist or racist. Definitely not white supremacist. Also I'm seeing a non white girl and he doesn't care so shrug, could go either way but he's not overt, is a good friend otherwise and doesn't say anything racist to a black or Asian person so I mostly just ignore it.

[QUOTE='[Phill];48337745'] The funny thing is, I've heard many people argue that one of the benefits of immigrants is that because migrants depress wages, they keep cost of labour under control for things like supermarkets, which thus of course means we all get cheap food.

People are quite open and honest about what benefits migrants bring and to whom.

Of course, it doesn't benefit the working class in the slightest.

The simple fact is this Phil, work worth what you can force your employer to pay you. If your threatening to leave has no effect and you are completely replaceable, you will earn whatever your boss tells you you're earning.

This is why the likes of Bob Crow and Tony Benn (hard, hard lefties) were so against the EU and free movement of labour. They weren't swivel-eyed right wing loons, they just realised that the only lever of bargaining that an unskilled, working class man has to negotiate with is "I'm-not-doing-that-for-that".

My recommendation is that you talk to some Labour campaigners who went door-to-door for Miliband in the last election (as I have done). They got a really rude awakening.

The Labour party has two choices; admit that its multicultural experiment has failed and brought misery to thousands of working class people, or put its fingers in its ears and shout 'lalalala I'm not listening'.

As a supporter of the Conservative party, I'm of course hoping that it'll be the latter.

That's the argument for not supporting JC as well and it's a poor type of argument. She shouldn't vote for UKIP if she's not anti-EU/anti-immigration precisely because it does make a difference even though they could never get elected.


Thanks. That's not a popular view in these parts