I think this might just be the best of your delusions.

What the bastarting **** is egalitarian about the ****ing 'white western' world?

i may have spoken too soon. what? hahahahahahahahha

the bbc are tory ****s. nick robinson is a massive tory ****. laura kuenssberg is as privileged as they come and slots nicely into her establishment role. they subscribe to the realist agenda in foreign affairs and the neoliberal quagmire we're currently sinking into.

There are plenty on the list you gave that contradict your theory: which of the Caribbean Islands are Islamic? I'm sure you can explain this, being a Rastamouse lol.

You disagree that people in the most desperate situations are more likely than others to turn to extreme solutions, such as (your favourite) Communism or now religious fundamentalism? Lol do you know anything about the world?

So, let me just get this straight...

You think that the homophobia that exists across the Muslim world, so much so that its hard to find a single Muslim country which doesn't have overtly anti-gay laws which is bases upon the commandments of it's religion, is purely coincidental and in fact caused by poverty?

...despite the fact that Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Malaysia and Indonesia are all incredibly wealthy countries and yet all have banned homosexuality in accordance with their religion.

Explain the Caribbean Islands being on your list. Are you Rastaman or Rastamouse (or some bigoted kid from a grotty part of London with a huge chip on his shoulder)?

They're not random links, they're links demonstrating that:

1) Even in a tolerant and Western country like Britain where most of its Muslim population were born here, rather than immigrated, 0% of them accept homosexuality.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/m...-homosexuality

and 2) A map demonstrating that homophobia, enshrined in law, is endemic to the Muslim world.

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-whe...ty-is-illegal/

If you truly cared about gay people, you wouldn't dismiss these links offhandedly, you'd re-examine your outlook and be curious to learn more about the challenges that LGBTQ people face worldwide.

But you don't care about gay people, certainly not more than you do about your reputation on an anonymous forum.

Jamaica has the largest proportion of churches per person on its island. Christianity, like Islam is openly homophobic.

Now, will you address the fact that this tiny island does not disprove the general trend that the map shows?

You're essentially pointing to a tall Chinese man and berating me when I point out that in general, Europeans are taller than Chinese people as if this remotely disproves anything I've said.

I am not bigoted. I grew up, met more and more Muslims, met several ex-Muslims who had their lives destroyed by their own supposed 'community', read the Qu'ran, and found it to be a repulsive religion with a repulsive doctrine.

You are a racist and expect no better from these people because you stereotype them as having brown skin.

EDIT: Do you maintain that Islamic-based homophobia is down to poverty rather than religion?

In the UK you live in one of the richest countries in the world. You have free education (you can even have free accelerated education if you're intelligent enough to get into a grammar school), you have free healthcare, you are gifted money if disabled or not in employment (but shock horror, not enough to live the life of Riley if we're talking about the latter).

Your university education is essentially free if it doesn't return you a decent job and if it does, it essentially is paid back through a very gentle tax.

You have freedom of the press where the entire range of opinions can be discussed freely even though you might not agree with them. You have the freedom to cast your vote and partake in the political process if you so desire.

These British values were spread throughout the Empire, leaving Canada, Australia and the United States with similar levels of wealth, prosperity and equality of opportunity with millions of people the world over looking on in admiration and wishing they could be part of them.

Equality of opportunity in the Western world is quite simply wonderful. Millions upon millions of people the world over would love to be in your position. You are simply a spoiled child who hasn't got a clue how lucky he is. How old are you anyway?

How about the other Caribbean islands on the list you quoted?

How about that you're now contradicting the whole Rastamouth thesis (if you can call mindless myopic bigotry a thesis)?

FIrst you say Islam cannot be allowed to gain a further foothold in the UK because it is a homophobic religion, now "Christianity, like Islam is openly homophobic", so presumably you're also against Christians settling in the UK? Maybe only if they're not white?

You are a racist bigot hiding, cowardly and ineffectively, behind a transparent cloak of liberalism, the way that all good Fascists do in the beginning.

Are you for real?

You think what is in those links would be some kind of revelation, that omfg RM is bringing the unbefore unseen trooof bombs to deh internets.

Really?

Before now I always assumed Muslims loved gay people, but wait hallaluala, Rasta's links have opened my eyes to de trooof.

This is the most full blown I have ever seen anyone.

Quick everyone who cares about gay people, form a line to click Rasta's links.

Also what ****ing outlook would I have to reexamine? I have made no statement of my views on this matter to you?

I mean you dont seem to have the beginning of a clue how people even browse forums.

You must hate the gays because you did not click the links in a discussion between two other posters that you were not participating in.

The drugs were good in Rastamouths part of the city.

Lets make this a little more scientific. We'll work out the percentage of Muslim-majority countries which have anti-gay laws, and see how it measures out versus the percentage of Christian-majority countries that have anti-gay laws.

Fancy doing that at all? No? Didn't think so.

Christianity has happily enough, been largely neutered in Western Europe (as exemplified that not a single country has anti-gay laws, compared to the Muslim world where they are almost universal). Its influence is negligible, its followers rarely try and forcefully convert people. Its most zealous followers don't attack those who make cartoons mocking Jesus whilst its relatively less zealous followers argue that they got what was coming to them.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

^ 78% of British Muslims thought that the Danish cartoonists of 2006 should have been prosecuted. Think we'd get a similar result if we surveyed Christians?

Which race don't I like?

You're the racist here. You equate being Muslim with being brown, and don't expect brown people to reach the same balanced and well-adjusted co-existence between state and religion that white, Western nations have.

You're even (twice now) happy to equate bigotry and homophobia with poverty.

Utterly revolting.

You need to take a good, long hard look at yourself.

Well now's your chance.

Without referring to another religion, what do you think of the views expressed in the Qu'ran towards homosexuals and what do you think of the views expressed by the British Muslims participating in the poll I've provided you with towards homosexuals?

Clearly I'm not equating bigotry and homophobia with poverty, and no one reading this other than you would interpret it that way. Building straw men won't help you here.

To show you what I mean, try this:

Would you agree or disagree that areas of high poverty and areas of high crime in the UK tend to be correlated (with causation)?

Yes, liberal capitalists. That's what I said.

What is the realist agenda?

You're not answering my question. Living in a rich country doesn't mean it is egalitarian.

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/sca...-inequality-uk

Education is free to a point, but it is not 'egalitarian'. Those from less affluent areas can expect to achieve less than their more privileged peers.

http://www.teachfirst.org.uk/why-we-...nal-inequality

Bravo. In such a rich society, it should be the least we expect, given we need to be in good health for our modern day slavery roles. Still, though, some of our more privileged brethren can enjoy the benefits of private healthcare.

Well, I see it differently. You can choose the dog eat dog mentality if you wish, but I'm not convinced we're actually dogs.

Since we live in such a rich country, we should be able to take care of those who are unable to make a living through disability.

And, given that inequality is necessary in a capitalist economy, I'm scratching my head trying to find a way to reconcile that with this 'egalitarian' society you think we live in.

Clearly, as quite a number have decided suicide is a better option. But actually we might be missing something. Maybe for some it is enough to live the life of Riley - certainly I'd say the benefits afforded to the elite are helping their respective lives of Riley, assuming we can agree that a £39 breakfast, for example, does indeed constitute the life of Riley.

No it isn't. For a Masters in linguistics at Edinburgh Uni, the cost is 8 grand for the 1 year course. There's currently no state funding for it. Clearly there are those who have the ability to pay and those who do not. Yes, I get that it is one example, but it is an example nevertheless, and not the only one.

It should be free in this rich egalitarian society we supposedly live in, or I should say we all should have an equal ability to pay.

You could argue that, since the advent of social media, we have this privilege, but even still, the mainstream media, which has a vastly superior coverage to online media, still sets the tone of the debate in ways that suit whichever agenda the media source wants. That's not 'the entire range of opinions'. I don't often, if ever, watch or listen to bbc news and get the likes of Chomsky's opinion on anything.

No I don't. Where's my vote on TTIP? What about a referendum on fracking? None of these things were even remotely a part of the GE debate, yet they are on the agenda for the toffs.

Well ok maybe fracking was for the greens, but, well, moving on.

I love this part. HAHAHA I ****ing love it. So, basically what you're saying is that our genocidal ancestors who built these great countries with the hands of the slaves they stole from wherever were revered the world over for their truly egalitarian values, aye? LOL

Dude we fought WWII 'for our freedom' while we had our boots on the heads of 600 million non whites across our 'great empire'. No wonder these poor bastards looked on in admiration eh? Oh to be a despot!

Nowadays we just go around the world plundering resources from foreign lands in order to maintain this great richness we have in our society, to the detriment, of course, of those unfortunate enough to be born into these countries - quite often Islamic countries, topically enough.

They really have done a brilliant job on you.

Quite possibly. I mean for sure, but what does this have to do with us living in an egalitarian society?

Nah, I do possess enough self awareness to see my place in the world, but again, I'm not sure what that has to do with whether or not the UK is 'egalitarian'. Just to be clear though, my concern is not necessarily with equality within demarcated borders; I do, though, desire this for every human. And I'm probably old enough to be your father, not that it's any of your business.

Sure. It's not always obvious what people mean by these terms.

Realism is the overwhelmingly dominant paradigm that the world is 'naturally' divided into competing states, each with its own national interests at heart, which will ultimately result in conflict for power and resources. It argues that humans are fundamentally flawed beings, driven by greed, and that this nature is 'fixed'.

75%+ of material on reading lists for U.S. IR courses are written by 'realists'.

Rastamouse:

You are not capable of seeing that extreme poverty attracts people to extreme solutions, like religious fundamentalism, which usually carries a lot of prejudiced baggage with it.

So therefore, I am not "equating" bigotry and homophobia with poverty.


If you have trouble understanding this, maybe you can answer this question:

Would you agree or disagree that areas of high poverty and areas of high crime in the UK tend to be correlated (with causation)?

That theory that **** Sapiens committed genocide to remove Neanderthal's does add credence to the evolutionary adaptive consequences of removing anything competing for resources. It's not necessarily greed, just self-preservation.

That just strikes me as incredibly selfish and myopic. Lets ignore global warming and let our kids kids sort it out but hopefully it wont be as bad as feared. Lets vote Corbyn and allow him to print money and run up huge debt, let our kids kids worry about their impending enslavement to the banks.

These values that we have been fortunate to have passed down to us were all brutally fought for and huge sacrifices made over hundreds of years. They do not just magically appear. They also do not just get accepted and adopted by anyone who steps foot inside the country. I cannot comprehend why a liberal who believes in these principles would wish to endanger and erode them for a higher gdp with little more than hope that it does not become a huge problem for their grandchildren

Thats like being against speed bumps in the road because the chance of you being run over is so much slimmer than dying from obesity

No the opposite is myopic. Assuming we need to be discriminatory today to socially engineer who lives in the country in three or more generations is pathetic and stupid in equal measure.

There is no clearly defined cause and effect between accepting refugees and not being discriminatory and the quality of life being worse in a century.

Without wanting to get into a lengthy debate, I've had this conversation with many friends doing politics courses at good to very good universities both in Britain and the US and the vast majority of lecturers are of a liberal or constructivist hue.

Realism likely dominates reading lists because it was the main historic theory and is quite compatible to study of the Cold War and other historical events.