I know some guys who were special forces that weighed 140 pounds who could kill an opponent much larger than they were with their bare hands in just about 2 seconds. It wouldn't have even been dramatic like in the movies. In fact, if it were done in a crowd, probably not many people would notice. Most of them were under 5'6". To say, based on the differences in size and age that there was no real danger to the larger opponent is a complete and total fallacy. You must not know much about physical confrontations, or else you wouldn't be saying this.

But special forces training aside, I could easily imagine the following scenario....

Kid gets in a lucky shot to Zimmerman's jaw. Jaw dislocates slightly, pinching the nerve. System crash. Zimmerman goes down and is motionless. Kid gets on top, continues pummeling. Zimmerman comes to, still getting beat in the head. Shouts for help. Still getting beat. The kid is pissed and isn't letting up. At this point, I don't care who you are, you fear your life is in danger. Zimmerman gets his gun, there is a struggle over it. The magazine is dislodged or the slide is impeded. Gun goes off. Trayvon is shot in the chest.

There's a dead 17 year old kid and a town watch guy with a gun who killed him. No deadly weapon on the kid.

Zimmerman goes free? Really?

I find it impossible that any civilized country lets this clown get his hands on a gun in the first place

Only on internet chat boards about politics.

And when you shoot a round what happens? in this case we are talking about a PF9 there would be one round in the breach and 7 in the mag, for a total of 8.

A Pf9 loaded to carry holds 8 rounds. I count i casing on the ground 1 in the chamber, 6 in the mag unless something not related to bad reporting happened. If it had 7 in the mag there is info to be had.

This is a 17 year old kid we are talking about, not a navy seal

yeah well, we don't have such laws in the US, I can't speak for the rest of the world.

in all countries on earth the guy has easy access to a gun if he wants one... see you on the moon.

I agree. If there was a struggle over the gun, than it's pretty easy to envision that the magazine eject mechanism is/was actioned.

LDO, but his argument could be that he did stop, but Trayvon wouldn't get off him even though he was yelling for help for almost a minute.

Totally. Cant let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

And it's impossible that a 17 year old adrenaline and testosterone loaded kid who is pissed off and determined can't be dangerous?

what facts are those? The one where I can get a gun anywhere anytime I want? Again I'm just trying to get to the root of your argument here.

Meh, i noticed that when it was first quoted and i just used occam's razor to assume the journo didnt have a clue how guns work so misreported what the cop said to them or some similar break in the chain of knowledge.

Who cares? Even if Trayvon did start winning the first that Zimmerman started that clearly isnt justifiable grounds for him to be shot dead.

Likely... I was just making an observation

hotlink?? its broked

Sure, id have ignored your post if exsub didnt start speculating wildly on explanations involving the mag being ejected in a struggle etc. We just dont know enough to do more than assume it was a journo mistake.

If there were a police report showing that at the time of "friendly detainment" Zimmerman's gun was found with an empty chamber and a full mag id question it, but otherwise it just sounds like a cop told the journo that only one was fired from the chamber and the gun was carried with a full mag and they misunderstood it.

I think what Fly is saying is that he doesn't know any Navy Seals.

This is not a 'fact' as I understand the term. There's a black market for guns in Ireland, certainly, but I'm unaware of its operations outside gangland circles. Maybe some old-timey paramilitary types also. The idea that it's as easy for me to get a gun as it is for you is just absurd. I would need to know people that I don't know and move in circles that I don't move in. You need to open the Yellow Pages. The situations don't compare.

If that witness testifies in court and is believable, yeah I bet Zimmerman doesn't get any kind of murder conviction. They might get him on some other charge for the stalking and generally being stupid, but not murder. If jury listens to that phone call and believes that Zimmerman was on his back yelling for help for 40+ seconds before he fired his gun, he's not going to jail for murder.

The fact that it's slightly harder for you to get a gun than me, doesn't mean it's difficult for you to get a gun.

What may have also happened is that Zimmerman told the police he carries with a full mag + 1 and that in telling the media it was mistakenly (either on the cop end or the media end) reported as the magazine was full when really they meant they found the weapon with 7 rounds total still in it. Or maybe dumb media was told there was 7 rounds, the reporter googles a kel tek pf9 and sees the mag holds 7 rounds and reports the mag was full. One possible scenario I read was that perhaps in the struggle, Zimmerman's jacket was lifted high enough to reveal his carry weapon and it then became a struggle for the weapon.

More evident of a violent struggle is that it's been stated by the police that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head. The police noted Zimmerman had grass clippings on his back so I wouldn't think he cut his head on the lawn. Could be he hit it against the walkway and they rolled into the grass or Martin used an expedient weapon like his can of iced tea or a rock.

I'm also curious if Martin had any scratches, bruises, etc from the struggle.

Not good enough; the statute says you have to break off physical contact.