Are There Flaws In Daniel Negreanu's Israel/Palestine Post? - Page 6 - Politics and Economics

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Are There Flaws In Daniel Negreanu's Israel/Palestine Post?

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08-01-2014 , 09:51 PM

#126

1fog

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 572

Quote:

Originally Posted by superleeds

Daniel should probably go to Israel. When it has calmed down a bit obviously. He should stand where Gaza starts. It's a ****hole compared to Israel and this is what breeds Hamas. Hamas is a despicable organization but it exists in part because Israel have never fulfilled their obligations.

What obligations are these?

08-01-2014 , 09:53 PM

#127

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Yeah I really don't get the "religion is the entire problem" people. It shows a tremendously superficial understanding of the conflict.

Well treating the conflict like it is merely two sided is also pretty superficial. I think the innocents being used as human shields, or simply living in the area are their own side.

Lumping them in with Hamas is a neat sounding justification that goes along with having no other choice. However, the people being forced to become human shields and/or have no where else to go are the faction in play that truly have no choice in the situation.

08-01-2014 , 09:57 PM

#128

S.K

Toffees >> Jellybeans

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 9,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by siccjay

Because they are harmless. My mom gets them a lot I think. I got a couple when I was a kid, but I can't remember the last time I had one. (knock on wood) I seem to remember my lips being chapped and cracked and then it turning into a cold sore. Maybe it's not the same thing?

I know I had at least one because when I was about 7 or 8 my mom had scheduled for us to take pictures as a family and I got a monster one. The picture still hangs in my parents hall and all my friends have laughed at it at some point.

I have just posted in the Israel thread. Following this conflict with zero agenda, I pretty much conclude exactly as Daniel has. The only thing I would add from my limited understanding is Israel have as little regard for Palestine civilians as Hamas do

08-01-2014 , 10:02 PM

#129

TheDuker

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,388

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

And then lets go back to the total body count:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/wo...za-israel.html

Quote:

Throughout Gaza, at least 87 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire on Sunday, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, bringing the death toll there since the Israeli air offensive began on July 8 to at least 425, with more than 3,000 injured. The toll includes more than 100 children.

That link is pretty old - here's the updated #scoreboard:

Gaza 'faces precipice' as death toll passes 1,400

Quote:

Up to 80% of the Palestinian casualties were civilians, according to local non-government organisations and the UN...Three civilians on the Israeli side and 56 soldiers have been killed so far.

08-01-2014 , 10:06 PM

#130

heh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.K

Given Israel's stated goal of being a light unto the nations, is it proper to have cery little regard for the civilians of an ebemy state?

08-01-2014 , 10:06 PM

#131

superleeds

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fog

What obligations are these?

Google is your friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel,...United_Nations

Quote:

"Legality of the State of Israel

Resolution 181 laid a foundation within international law and diplomacy[66] for the creation of the state of Israel; as it was the first formal recognition by an international body of the legitimacy of a Jewish state, to exist within a partition of the territory along with an Arab state.

The UN followed the practice of the Peace Conference of Paris and the League of Nations regarding the creation of states.[67] Religious and minority rights were placed under the protection of the United Nations and recognition of the new states was conditioned upon acceptance of a constitutional plan of legal protections.[68][69] Israel acknowledged that obligation, and Israel's declaration of independence stated that the State of Israel would ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex, and guaranteed freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture. In the hearings before the Ad Hoc Political Committee that considered Israel's application for membership in the United Nations, Abba Eban said that the rights stipulated in section C. Declaration, chapters 1 and 2 of UN resolution 181(II) had been constitutionally embodied as the fundamental law of the state of Israel as required by the resolution.[70] The instruments that he cited were the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, and various cables and letters of confirmation addressed to the Secretary General. Eban's explanations and Israel's undertakings were noted in the text of General Assembly Resolution 273 (III) Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations, May 11, 1949.,[71] The British Mandate for Palestine expired on May 15, 1948, and the UK recognized Israeli independence eight months later.

Seriously go there. You'll see Israel are not 100% in the right here

08-01-2014 , 10:08 PM

#132

MinusEV

Giftastic!

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12,438

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.K

I pretty much conclude exactly as Daniel has. The only thing I would add from my limited understanding is Israel have as little regard for Palestine civilians as Hamas do

I don't really understand this. Are you saying that it is ok to kill innocent civilians as long as there are others who also think killing innocent civilians is fine?

08-01-2014 , 10:08 PM

#133

emyoueffsee

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 850

The IDF and Israeli government are subhuman scum. Israel has gotten away with murder for years(literally) but now people around the world have finally awoken to how horrible they really are. Has been an absolute disastrous campaign PR wise for Israel and one they will never fully recover from.

08-01-2014 , 10:10 PM

#134

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by emyoueffsee

Location: Ireland

checks out

08-01-2014 , 10:17 PM

#135

S.K

Toffees >> Jellybeans

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 9,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by heh

Given Israel's stated goal of being a light unto the nations, is it proper to have cery little regard for the civilians of an ebemy state?

08-01-2014 , 10:19 PM

#136

gobbomom

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Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinusEV

Problem is, neither side will move because of the historically significance the region holds for their religion.

Like a lot of other big issues in this world - if we could just remove the religious aspect of it, there would be no issue.

I disagree. While the religious differences are the supposed instigator of the war, I believe that the environmental issues are the driving force of the ongoing conflicts.
There is an ongoing severe water crisis in this area that far surpasses any energy concerns a country may have. Countries are going to war over unsustainable resources such as water and gas, and it won't end until this fact is admitted and addressed.

08-01-2014 , 10:20 PM

#137

S.K

Toffees >> Jellybeans

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 9,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinusEV

I don't really understand this. Are you saying that it is ok to kill innocent civilians as long as there are others who also think killing innocent civilians is fine?

No my post wasn't clear, my bad

08-01-2014 , 10:21 PM

#138

lew189

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,450

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

I agree with Daniel on this.

Me, too.

08-01-2014 , 10:22 PM

#139

DVaut1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30,005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDuker

That link is pretty old - here's the updated #scoreboard:

Gaza 'faces precipice' as death toll passes 1,400

You're just too wrapped up in #feelings, #GreenLaternJew, #NoAlternative, #scoreboard, that just won't fly here. Why don't you stop comparing the Palestinian death toll to the Israel death toll as you keep never doing and instead explain to me in exacting detail your military strategy, because if not I assume you're just a hipster with #feelings.

08-01-2014 , 10:22 PM

#140

campfirewest

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,590

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbomom

I'm pretty sure they aren't fighting over natural resources.

08-01-2014 , 10:24 PM

#141

MinusEV

Giftastic!

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12,438

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbomom

I'm not sure what bombing UN schools in Gaza is going to do for the water supply in Israel?

08-01-2014 , 10:27 PM

#142

heh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinusEV

I'm not sure what bombing UN schools in Gaza is going to do for the water supply in Israel?

Bombing Gaza's only power plant may have an effect on resources, though.

08-01-2014 , 10:32 PM

#143

Hugo_Broak

banned

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by emyoueffsee

The IDF and Israeli government are subhuman scum. Israel has gotten away with murder for years(literally) but now people around the world have finally awoken to how horrible they really are. Has been an absolute disastrous campaign PR wise for Israel and one they will never fully recover from.

+1

Same goes for Hannity and the other media puppets.

08-01-2014 , 10:38 PM

#144

DFish

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,510

I just have one question for everyone in this thread.

Regardless of your point of view on this conflict, do you think arguing about it on an internet forum has a non zero % chance of impacting the conflict in any way, do you think those with opposing views will actually decide to agree with you, or is this all just a competition to see who can sound more educated about a topic that is essentially a complete waste of time to discuss because we have literally no control over it?

08-01-2014 , 10:39 PM

#145

lew189

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,450

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

wantonly targeting civilians or behaving recklessly such that they are dying in the cross-fire is immoral.

I doubt that they are behaving recklessly, but I acknowledge they could be. What I absolutely do NOT believe is that they (Israel) are "wantonly targeting civilians." I don't believe the same is true of Hamas.

08-01-2014 , 10:45 PM

#146

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by heh

My point was that Israel's response is disproportionate.

It seems that everybody that says this thinks that 'disproportionate' is the word of the day and ignores 'response.' Remove the reason for 'response' and you don't get 'disproportionate.' That's the real story.

08-01-2014 , 10:46 PM

#147

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFish

What's the point of talking about anything on the internet?

08-01-2014 , 10:51 PM

#148

longmissedblind

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,736

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

In 2005, didn't Israel withdraw their settlements from Gaza, and back in the 1970s, didn't Israel withdraw settlements from the Sinai?

Mason

Settlements have been an on-going issue up to the present. Also, this development is funded to a grand extent by fundamentalist zionist christians in the south and west united states (if HBO's Vice is a credible source).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In March 2009, a confidential "EU Heads of Mission Report on East Jerusalem" was published, in which the Israeli government was accused of "actively pursuing the illegal annexation" of East Jerusalem. The report stated: "Israeli 'facts on the ground' - including new settlements, construction of the barrier, discriminatory housing policies, house demolitions, restrictive permit regime and continued closure of Palestinian institutions - increase Jewish Israeli presence in East Jerusalem, weaken the Palestinian community in the city, impede Palestinian urban development and separate East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank."

source

08-01-2014 , 11:01 PM

#149

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by emyoueffsee

Arab leaders view Hamas as worse than Israel.

Egypt has led a new coalition of Arab states — including Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates — that has effectively lined up with Israel in its fight against Hamas