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Sunday Night Presidential Speech - Osama Bin Laden Dead Sunday Night Presidential Speech - Osama Bin Laden Dead

05-05-2011 , 01:45 AM
Does anyone else question that helicopter tail? It doesn't look like a black hawk to me.



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...&aqi=&aql=&oq=


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_1...28-503543.html



After looking around seems I'm not the only one who noticed this:

http://defensetech.org/


What ever they used had stealth technology and probably a huge reason Pakistan Radar did not pick them up.

Last edited by FleeingFish; 05-05-2011 at 01:51 AM.
05-05-2011 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
Maybe but it been well stated that he was very diligent towards his security almost to a paranoid degree so I'm not real sure how much they would know.


If you had millions of dollars, you could hide your self from anyone. You just have to sacrifice certain freedoms like going outside during daylight hours.
I'm not arguing they knew, I'm presenting this as an argument against them knowing. But I feel like you should know that.

How do you manage to misinterpret so many arguments? It's very hard to believe this isn't deliberate.
05-05-2011 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
I'm not arguing they knew, I'm presenting this as an argument against them knowing. But I feel like you should know that.

How do you manage to misinterpret so many arguments? It's very hard to believe this isn't deliberate.
Who say I was, further, who says I wasn't just supporting your opinion or just adding to it. You seem to have a paranoia concerning peoples agendas.
05-05-2011 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
Does anyone else question that helicopter tail? It doesn't look like a black hawk to me.



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...&aqi=&aql=&oq=


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_1...28-503543.html



After looking around seems I'm not the only one who noticed this:

http://defensetech.org/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ters-raid.html

Quote:
They managed to penetrate Pakistani airspace, hover for 40 minutes, and flee undetected towards Afghanistan until the very last minute.

And now, pictures of the wrecked helicopter that crashed in Osama bin Laden's compound may shed new light on how Navy SEAL raiders snuck into Abbottabad without alerting Pakistani forces - by using secret 'stealth' helicopters.

Pictures of the downed chopper's heavily damaged tail section bear a striking resemblance to the smooth angular design of other stealth aircraft and have left aviation experts struggling to identify the unknown machine.

...
05-05-2011 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Kind of funny, the first copter I goggled was the Comanche because I did not remember the tail rotary.
05-05-2011 , 02:07 AM
Osama's last facebook post:

05-05-2011 , 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velak
Osama's last facebook post:

Brilliant.
05-05-2011 , 02:15 AM
loolllllllllllllll
05-05-2011 , 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velak
Osama's last facebook post:

us navy and osama were friends? wow, that makes some hot headlines imo.
05-05-2011 , 02:19 AM
Conthpiracy!
05-05-2011 , 02:45 AM
don't know if it has been talked about but how big of a **** up is it that parts of the never before pictured stealth helicopter are now in the hands of a foreign country?
05-05-2011 , 02:58 AM
I don't think it's a screw up really. They got in, did their job, and got out. It's not like they could really start a salvage operation in the middle of their mission. Stuff happens, they improvised.

What amazes me is the people that question if OBL is dead or not. If he was still walking this earth, all he'd have to do is show his face now and make America look really stupid. Obama would go from hero to zero in the snap of your fingers. How do those people explain his daughter saying she saw him killed?

Why would they think we'd have even been there to begin with? If nothing else, that wreckage shows we were THERE.

I don't know what's up with that wreckage but it's certainly and obviously different. I think it magnifies just how high of a priority the target was.
05-05-2011 , 03:09 AM
well if he was alive it would because we faked his death and wanted to be able to interrogate him however and for as long as we want without dealing with any public trial issues. It wouldn't be because we made up going there and getting him.
05-05-2011 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velak
I don't think it's a screw up really. They got in, did their job, and got out. It's not like they could really start a salvage operation in the middle of their mission. Stuff happens, they improvised.

What amazes me is the people that question if OBL is dead or not. If he was still walking this earth, all he'd have to do is show his face now and make America look really stupid. Obama would go from hero to zero in the snap of your fingers. How do those people explain his daughter saying she saw him killed?

Why would they think we'd have even been there to begin with? If nothing else, that wreckage shows we were THERE.

I don't know what's up with that wreckage but it's certainly and obviously different. I think it magnifies just how high of a priority the target was.
You've obviously never talked to a person of faith
05-05-2011 , 04:52 AM
When did Juan Cole get so damn sensible?

Quote:
Top Ten Myths about Bin Laden’s Death

New details of the operation against Usama Bin Laden have emerged. Here are the myths that people keep bombarding me with and which are now known to be untrue.

1. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf held that Bin Laden had long been dead. Not true. Musharraf said in 2002 that he thought Bin Laden might have died. But then he learned through CIA interrogations of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (captured spring 2003) that Bin Laden was still alive. Musharraf thereafter accepted that the al-Qaeda leader was still around and never again said that he was dead.

2. Former President George W. Bush ‘spent much of his presidency looking for Bin Laden.’ In fact, Bush said in 2002 that capturing Bin Laden was not a high priority: “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 In 2006, he closed down the CIA Bin Laden desk.

3. The intelligence that allowed the identification of Bin Laden’s courier, which led the CIA to the safe house in Abbottabad, was gained through waterboarding prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. It was not. The information was elicited during conversations with the detainees. Torture often produces resistance and disinformation, as with Sheikh al-Libi’s allegations that Saddam Hussein was training al-Qaeda in chemical weapons.

4. Bin Laden died with a gun in his hands. He did not, though he may have been going for one.

5. Bin Laden grabbed a wife as a human shield. He did not, though it may have looked like it to one of the SEALs, since she put herself between him and them.

6. The Pakistani press speculated that Bin Laden’s bodyguards shot him to keep him from falling into American hands. They did not. The guards were on the first floor, were armed, and resisted the SEALs, who shot them to death along with a woman who was caught in the crossfire.

7. Bin Laden was executed by US forces. He was not. His wife lunged at the SEALS and was shot in the leg. Then Bin Laden made threatening moves (looked as if he was going for a weapon?), and he was shot. [Having the authority to kill is not the same as being ordered to assassinate. There would certainly have been fears the house was booby-trapped or that Bin Laden had a gun somewhere on his person, so his refusal to freeze when so ordered was a serious potential threat.]

8. Bin Laden was assassinated. He was not. First of all, he was the leader of a para-statal organization that had declared war on the United States. If the US could have stormed Hitler’s bunker and taken him out, it would not have been an assassination, any more than being able to take out an enemy general on the battlefield would be. Second, the SEALs fired only when he made a threatening move, which is a form of self-defense. There is every reason to believe that the US would have preferred to take Bin Laden alive, since they could have then interrogated him about ongoing terrorism plans.

9. Muslims have been silent about the killing of Bin Laden. Not true. There has been widespread Muslim condemnation of Bin Laden and expressions of relief that he is gone from the scene.

10. That Bin Laden was found in Abbottabad proves that the Pakistani military was harboring him. This is possible but not proved by this mere fact. Murtaza Haider, himself from northwestern Pakistan, notes in the Scientific American:

‘ It’s standard in Pakistan to build these humongous compounds, where living quarters are covered by green space and that green space is then gated and there’s a boundary wall, which is usually substantially high with barbed wire on top of it. It’s not something out of the ordinary.

This is a very tribal culture where people—men, especially—believe that women should not be seen by strangers. In addition, a large number of tribal Pashtuns living in the area became wealthy by the drug trade and could afford to build these compounds—this whole area is a major trade route for opium. Another reason to build those compounds is security. A lot of wealthy Pashtuns have disputes with their cousins over land that they have inherited. Because of these inheritance disputes, a lot of people end up hurting or killing their own cousins over their land. So it’s common to build these compounds to ward off attacks from your relatives who may be after your land as well.

If it is true that Osama bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad, I’m not at all surprised because that is a place where a lot of these radicalized clerics came from. What does surprise me was his proximity to the Pakistani military academy, which is the West Point of Pakistan, where all the commissioned officers get trained. It is surprising that he was bold enough to find refuge so close to the military training college. There are a lot of people who are trying to create intimations that the military was perhaps involved. You know, if the military were involved they wouldn’t have kept him there; they would have kept him 100 miles away from that place. It’s possible that the military was looking for bin Laden everywhere, and that’s the last place they would have bothered to look.’
05-05-2011 , 05:00 AM
inb4 Obama let sensitive military technology fall into enemy hands
05-05-2011 , 05:39 AM
The story about the actual shooting is now as follows it seems:

They burst into Bin Laden's bedroom, where Bin Laden, a wife and his brother were. The wife lunged at the SEALs, and was shot in the calf. Bin Laden was within arms reach of an AK47 and a pistol (and may or may not have lunged for one of them), so both men were shot dead.

Can't really fault that if that's how it went down tbh, given the weapon next to him and the threat of booby-traps. That shot is getting taken 100% of the time.
05-05-2011 , 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snagglepuss
4 high, lestat,

if it comes out that there is certain evidence that there was no 'fire fight' and that no one outside of the seals fired a weapon, what would you think?
IDK. Is assassination always wrong? If so, is it morally wrong? Legally wrong? Or both?

You can't tell me the USA hasn't been party to an assassination before. That doesn't make it right, but I'm sure it's been more common throughout history than many would like to believe. TBH, I'd still be fine with it under your scenario. This guy was public enemy #1. Is a trial necessary for someone who publicly confesses to heinous atrocities worldwide and personally takes responsibility for the deaths of thousands of innocents? Didn't he publicly declare war not just on the United States, but scores of other innocent people throughout the world? So I'm not sure, but think that if assassination was ever justified, this might be it.

Btw- I admit I'm just spewing here. My position is based on emotion and not on an unbiased assessments of all the facts. I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong. Also FWIW, I do think this mission was a glorified assassination. That's my own little conspiracy theory. I don't think it would have mattered had he been unarmed and even waving a white flag. The plan was to kill him from the get go. Once he was ID'd, it was all over, and there was never a chance he'd be seen alive again. I have no proof of this, but would bet a decent chunk of money on it.
05-05-2011 , 06:58 AM
I think this mission was kill only barring I dunno some spectacular surrender but if he like turned himself in to authorities a few weeks ago for whatever strange reason I don't think they would've shot him in the face or anything lol
05-05-2011 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 High
I don't get why people are making such a big deal out of the changing details.

Clearly what happened was they talked to a few people on the team who said they saw x y z and they were mistaken and it was clarified by the other people.

I think the Administration made the mistake of wanting to get the details to the people quickly and thus some of them were wrong. I would have waited until they talked to all 40 plus on the team, watched the video etc, but I can understand wanting to get info out there quickly.
So make stuff up to fill in the details that the admin doesn't know by making stuff up and then decide later to go silent on the details.
05-05-2011 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Yeah, no single person saw everything that happened and I'm sure people who actually were there disagree. They sort of have to start telling people stuff even if they are not certain it is true, as there is just too much interest in this story. If they tried to say nothing, the media would just make stuff up and blame the administration if it was wrong.
Much like Pat Tillman, amirite?
05-05-2011 , 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa
Much like Pat Tillman, amirite?
Not a perfect but pretty good analogy. They dont want another one of those on their hands i imagine, although ldo its an imprecise analogy.
05-05-2011 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
So make stuff up to fill in the details that the admin doesn't know by making stuff up and then decide later to go silent on the details.
Why do you think they were making stuff up? It's possible they were simply relaying the first few reports they had as data poured in. Do you really think it's unreasonable for some of this data to be incomplete or even wrong?

I agree the administration made a mistake (and I think they'd agree too). They should have waited until THEY knew exactly what happened. But you just can't please some people. If they don't release information right away as they themselves get it, you're going to scream that they're trying to cover something up. If they do release it right away before they've had a chance to completely verify everything for accuracy, you're going to scream they're making stuff up. Whatever...
05-05-2011 , 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cres
FMR CIA Director, the database from Gitmo was kind of like the Home Depot of intelligence gathering.


So is he saying it's full of ****, unorganized, and nobody that works there knows what they're talking about..?

Last edited by Jbrochu; 05-05-2011 at 09:42 AM. Reason: meh he probably means it's got the same crap everyone else has and it all came from China

      
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