I've written extensively about this itt. Of course this is bad.

I never made the claim they are green NGOs. They are corporations with self interest like every corporation of every type. I simply pointed out two things, one they are not all cartoon villains and two there is no good alternative to the fossil fuel economy right now.

I've literally been temp banned from this thread for being too extreme in my opposition to Trump but when I bring up anything even remotely supportive of something traditionally "right wing" some people act like I'm Sushy or Avwal. This should make us question if there is room for any difference of opinion on the left sometimes.

I never once said environmental protest is bad. I'm a member of several green NGOs and sit on the board of one of our largest environmental land trusts. All I've said is people protest the wrong things. Pipelines are the wrong things if the real goal is mitigating climate change and not getting media time.

The only reason I point out my job and other experience is to illustrate I have some data to back up my position. It's not just opinion.

looooooool nuanced debate when you go as far as to sum up my position with the bolded text

are you ****ing kidding me? what a joke

The one tiny silver lining to the US leaving the Paris Accord is they lose thier veto. Given the bizzare political philosophy regarding climate change, which is almost unique to the US, this is probably a good thing. This or future adminstrations can't use veto power to mess with the political goals of the accord.

idk why im even going to continue to engage you after that pathetic response you gave me, but

then you should be able to connect the dots on what kind of impact that has on the products we, the citizens, use in our daily lives and how that affects pollution/climate change in this country

i dont know what you're arguing against here, i never said we should do away with the fossil fuel industry tomorrow.

try bringing up a "right wing something" that isn't a complete load of ****. you're sitting here lecturing us about how industry and corporations aren't a huge driving force/problem behind climate change, which is utterly ridiculous.

that's cool but i'm not talking about environmental protest or pipelines. maybe you would have noticed that if you weren't framing my argument in the most patronizing, reductive, and incorrect way possible so that you can sit there and handwave with some meow chow about how not all corporations are evil and you know this because of your business experience.

like, good job man, good for you- i'll be the first to say that canada >>>>> usa. here in america we have corporations that flood lobbying organizations with billions of dollars with the expressed purpose of resisting any environmental regulation that could come their way. that has an impact on pollution and climate change. a large one, at that, and one which they bear responsibility for.

Thanks for the update Donald.

Where the **** do you regs find the time to post? I'm just a office lackey who only finds the time to make a snide comment here or there. Some of you lot seem to warp time with the amount of **** you do in the 5 minutes a day your not on here!

$16,000 for 6400 kw.

Apparently Alberta is one of the best places in North America in terms of sunlight hours per day. We are seeing a bit of a gold rush in terms of solar farms which is cool. It's just the residential version that doesn't seem to be getting cheaper.

One plus of being the boss.

Found this article interesting about Trump-supported group for victims of immagrant crime. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ampaign-239006

My take-away was that the grifter who used the families who hoped they could grift her were out grifted by Trump.

Apparently Mueller has hired-on the FBI lead for foreign bribery/money laundering. If you're going to follow the money, that's probably a handy guy to have around. Like I said before, Mueller will have a staff full of ringers.


NY Times seems to be hinting that Trump may try to prevent Comey testifying by claiming exec privilege. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't see how such privilege could apply broadly and not more specifically, whether issue by issie or even question by question.

good, **** those people. using their one-off tragedies that are in no way indicative of immigrants as a whole in order to generate more xenophobia and justify deporting people, closing down our borders, building walls, etc. oh, and to get a payday out of it too...but in the end trump didn't actually care and basically scammed you? really? you don't say?

no ****s given here for those complete *******s

I'm on the Clovis side of this debate.

We were all getting along so well when the discussion was 'Trump just did____, how bad is that?'
Now, when the discussion is 'what should we do?' The answers vary greatly and there is arguing as there should be.

basically all you need to know about these people

Like this part of the article:

"Espinoza, who points out that her father immigrated to the U.S. legally, hasn’t lost a family member to crime by immigrants in the country illegally. Rather, she said she decided to start the Remembrance Project in 2009 with her husband Tim Lyng after becoming disturbed by the killings of several Houston police officers by undocumented immigrants.

She and Lyng, a civil engineer, in late 2010 filed paperwork in Texas to incorporate the Remembrance Project. It was the second charity they’d formed in Texas; the first, The Joint Association to Stop Spina Bifida Corporation, appears to have been mothballed after minimal activity. The Remembrance Project’s purpose, according to the Texas filing, would be “to help those persons who have lost loved ones from illegal activities of other (sic) create a remembrance to honor the life lost and to help in the healing process.”"

So if your child died as a result of someone else and a group came along and pretended to care for you, you wouldn't be inclined to listen?

Obviously, everything Trump has ever done is a scam, but I think sometimes you can't blame the victims of his scams as they were truly vulnerable

It's truly amazing

Also, Mueller can likely get to Trump's tax returns according to one D. Skalansky.

"David Sklansky, a Stanford University law professor who worked for years as a Justice Department prosecutor in Los Angeles, says a request for the tax returns might be an obvious step for Mueller to take. “I’m reluctant to speculate about what will happen, but Mueller can apply for an order for tax returns, just like any U.S. attorney could, if he concludes there is reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed,” Sklansky says. “Everything we know about Mueller suggests he isn’t likely to make an application like this unless he has good grounds for it.”"

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...returns-215212

That's a good price.

Alberta is good for Canada, but not North America.

http://www.solardirect.com/pv/system...sun-hours.html

You get about 4 sun hours*. Where I am is about 5.5. The desert in SoCal gets up to over 7.

*that's average for the year and is not hours of sunshine, but it's a specific measure of energy. 1 sun hour = 1000 watts per square meter for an hour.

Rewarding them for their hard work

ABC News from Way Back in September 2016: Russian Hackers Target Nearly Half of States' Voter Registration Systems, Successfully Infiltrate 4

I've been at home sick for the last week.

Characterize the Clovis side of the debate. Imho he's just strawmanned people as saying everything corporations do and anyone in a corporation it's evil.

"being inclined to listen" is different than joining the group. and no, if some illegal immigrant committed a crime that resulted in the death of a loved one, i would not go out and link up with this group.

the whole point of why this is so objectionable is that illegal immigrants commit LESS crimes per capita than the native populace as a whole. illegal immigration isn't making our country any less safe, but this group alleges that it does while it searches for ever more dubious/crafty ways to link up financially with republican politicians and donors so that they can push that agenda politically. it's complete bull**** and these people are all racist ****s. **** their tragedy, i'd have sympathy if they weren't out there wrongfully demonizing a group of people who are, on average, far more hardworking and law abiding than their native counterparts. it's wrong, and i don't stand for it.

Here is someone who was very offended by Kathy Griffin

Let me ask you. Do oil companies do any positive lobbying?

Because it's the big story, your administration has surely stopped the surveillance and unmasking of our enemies and potential acts of treason, yes? Either answer is largely problematic, given the sheer magnitude of this story. You're just too stupid to see what damage you're doing to yourself.

No, the big story here is our president spending every waking hour on helping himself instead of what's good for the United States.

The big story is Russia now openly threatening our country, and the president responding by granting their requests. And, their requests have been granted time and time again for absolutely nothing but trouble in return for the United States.

The big story is how our president is the laughing stock of the entire world, while he blames this on a 6.4 billion person coordinated effort to personally attack him and not a single one of his devastating actions.

The big story is the majority of people in charge of keeping the president in check are loyal yes-men (and a woman or two) who are doing everything in their power, legal or illegal, to block the truth of ANYTHING negative about the president coming out, regardless of how wrong or illegal the president has been.

The big story is everything we've worked so hard for and fought and died for over 250 years is being demolished in 4 months.

The big story is the information warfare initiated by Russia and being perpetuated by the sitting president, trying to blur all lines between truth and reality, including a massive attempt to make the public believe that none of these things even happened!

120+ days into your presidency Mr Trump, and you've succeeded in breaking the long-standing records of nearly every nefarious act committed over decades by every person you've ever complained about your entire life.