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09-04-2009 , 08:57 PM
Oh, and the answer to OP's question is "B".
Obama vs W - the frenzy
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09-04-2009 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Eagle
This is just hilarious in its wrongness. Clinton's first move in office was to raise taxes in order to lower the deficit, Bush's was to lower taxes and blow up the deficit. Bush's entire foreign policy infrastructure outside of the State department was populated by Neocons (Wolfowitz, Feith, Abrams, plus Cheney) whose number one priority was finding an excuse to get rid of Sadam. There is no possible interpretation of the Clinton administration foreign policy experience (other than the other side is ****ed up too wishful thinking) that gets you from 9/11 to an invasion of Iraq under a Clinton presidency.
As I have said before libs should love republicans for making the tax code so progressive with our "tax cuts." Almost half the entire population of income earners were removed from the tax roles with these "tax cuts for the wealthy." The top 10% pays 66% of all taxes. The top 50% pays 97%. And if a tax cut stimulates economic growth and increases revenues is it really the tax cut's fault there is a 911 to depress the economy and then war in Iraq to inflate spending? What causes deficits first and foremost are recessions.

Ooh Neocons! Please throw in Blackwater, Halliburton and "torture" while you are at it.

Yeah, you are right it wasn't Clinton that signed a resolution that called for the overthrow of Saddam...

Quote:
Yesterday, Clinton signed into law HR 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act
of 1998." In a presidential statement, issued by the White House,
Clinton said, "This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress
that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi
opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the
bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the
current regime in Baghdad now offers. . . . On October 21, 1998, I
signed into law the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental
Appropriations Act, 1999, which made $8 million available for assistance
to the Iraqi democratic opposition. . . My Administration, as required
by that statue, has also begun to implement a program to compile
information regarding allegations of genocide, crimes against humanity,
and war crimes by Iraq's current leaders as a step towards bringing to
justice those directly responsible for such acts.
"

The president of the INC's Executive Council welcomed Clinton's
signature of the Iraq Liberation Act, in an Oct 31 statement that began
by condemning Saddam's suspension of UNSCOM monitoring, while hailing
the president's signing of the legislation and thanking the US Congress.
The statement concluded, "Saddam is the problem and he cannot be part of
any solution in Iraq. Therefore, President Clinton's action today is
the most appropriate response to Saddam. Let him know that Iraqis will
rise up to liberate themselves from his totalitarian dictatorship and
that the US is ready to help their democratic forces with arms to do so.
Only then will the trail of tragedy in Iraq end. Only then will Iraq be
free of weapons of mass destruction."
The Clinton administration repeatedly and emphatically portrayed Saddam as a threat in language would make your Neocon's blush.

President Clinton himself, defending intensified U.S. air strikes against Iraq military targets, in 1998 declared "the actual use of force" the "surest way to contain Saddam Hussein’s WMD program."

President would often ask what is the consequence of failing to take action against Saddam’s defiance of United Nations resolutions condemning his oppressive regime and refusal to cooperate with weapons inspectors? Clinton’s answer:"He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he’ll use that arsenal."

This point became something of a Clinton refrain. "Mark my words," he said on another occasion. "He will develop WMD.He will deploy them, and he will use them."

Vice President Al Gore spoke of Saddam. He said the dictator had stockpiled chemical and biological weapons: "He could be a mass murderer of the first order of magnitude."

Other Clinton aides reinforced this message. National Security Adviser Sandy Berger noted that "I am certain he will use that arsenal again," said Berger in 1998.

The Clinton administration’s U.N. ambassador, Bill Richardson, was every bit as dramatic about the Saddam threat."Facts are facts," he said."Iraq has been deceiving the international community with the weaponization of nerve gas.It’s that simple."

Madeleine Albright in 1999 pronounced Iraq "a rogue state" and "the greatest security threat we face."
09-04-2009 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
And people who call themselves anarcho-capitalists are usually.......???
enlightened and/or geniuses???
09-04-2009 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draidin
why are there not any libs or dems protesting the wars now???

because the previous administration drilled it in peoples heads for 2+ years that we cant just pull out ina disorderly fashion and people have accepted that and are giving Obama until Bush's proposed timetable.

if we're still in Iraq after that I expect a ****storm of biblical proportions
09-04-2009 , 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loss Tee
Ok - without getting into any Obama bashing - or Bush bashing (impossible I'm sure) -

I have a general question.

I live in Houston, TX. During the final year(s) of Bush's presidency - there were occasional rumblings - occasionally a snippet about Bush's low approval rating would come up; there were a lot of stories about the woman who's son died in Iraq constantly causing a ruckus (she was pretty much painted as crazy and super wacko - but can't remember her name right now)

We would occasionally hear about this 'liberal' or that 'liberal' calling to impeach W. We had the Dixie Chicks speaking out against W (and still aren't played on Houston radio) - had Springsteen and other celebs speaking out -

And in general - the 'attitude' in Houston seemed to be "what is up with these nutty celebs" - which translated meant "what is up with this extremely vocal minority" (my perception).

--------------

Now - I still live in Houston - and as far as the press - it is all about 'tea parties' - 'town halls' - 'EVERYONE is against healthcare' - 'NO ONE wants Obama addressing kids' - 'Obama is blowing it in Afghanistan" - etc etc

So -from my perception - again - living in Texas - it seems America is more pissed off than I've ever seen them in my lifetime (I'm 40).

There seems to be 5x more outrage at the things Obama/dems have done/are trying to do than there ever was during the bush years.

Is that:

A- Generally true across the US
B - A symptom of me living in Houston, TX
C - A symptom of my own ignorance/lack of knowledge

There may be other options as well. What I'm talking about here is PERCEPTION
This is pretty much the exact opposite of my experience in the liberal midwest. B
09-04-2009 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
And people who call themselves anarcho-capitalists are usually.......???
people who are libertarians, are in the least, not evil tyrants. so i give them that right off the bat.
09-05-2009 , 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
Because most Dems believe Obama is pursuing the correct policy on Iraq: to leave, but slowly.
so they and Obama are morons??? I dont understand this line of argument Iron .. I know your trying to support Obama I just dont know how.
09-05-2009 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggsCasey
this... x10
LOL you guys are killing me!

How did this become the Clinton love thread?? The only reason that clown looks good is by comparison to his slightly less articulate redneck brother that came after him. They are two peas in a pod. Hell at least with W you could count on him not lying maybe 20% of the time, Bill lies just for fun to see if he can trick people. Apparently that works, because he fooled you rubes into thinking he was more that a slimy scum sucking peice of garbage that I wouldnt buy a used car from.
09-05-2009 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
And people who call themselves anarcho-capitalists are usually.......???
09-05-2009 , 02:58 AM


FYP
09-05-2009 , 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeBlis
LOL you guys are killing me!

How did this become the Clinton love thread?? The only reason that clown looks good is by comparison to his slightly less articulate redneck brother that came after him. They are two peas in a pod. Hell at least with W you could count on him not lying maybe 20% of the time, Bill lies just for fun to see if he can trick people. Apparently that works, because he fooled you rubes into thinking he was more that a slimy scum sucking peice of garbage that I wouldnt buy a used car from.
Bull****. You didn't see any Clinton love from me. He was wildly responsible, and it was his CIA that dropped the ball before Bush, and then didn't man-up and counter Cheney's independent WHIGs initiative when they knew it was bunk.

No one is defending goofy Bill Clinton here, so you can dispense with that crap straight away. Thanks.
09-05-2009 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeBlis


FYP
POTY

neblis 4 king imo
09-05-2009 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
POTY

neblis 4 king imo
LDO .... I will be quoting that endorsement .. thank you my favorite king
09-05-2009 , 11:47 AM
FWIW I've endorsed about 15 people already.
09-05-2009 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
FWIW I've endorsed about 15 people already.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you said your piece now stfu
09-05-2009 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeBlis


FYP
bahahah
09-05-2009 , 12:22 PM
wow, people simulataneously attacking obama for being in iraq/afghanistan while defending bush's actions ITT
09-05-2009 , 12:24 PM
lol really, which posts?
09-05-2009 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanDyer
wow, people simulataneously attacking obama for being in iraq/afghanistan while defending bush's actions ITT
I agree w/ this, we shouldn't have been in there in teh first place, and our piece of **** current president should have pulled everyone out like he said he was going to
09-05-2009 , 12:26 PM
I don't think Obama said he was going to do that, that's just what all the Obamatrons (lmao, yesss!) wanted to believe. Wishful thinking.
09-05-2009 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taso
I don't think Obama said he was going to do that, that's just what all the Obamatrons (lmao, yesss!) wanted to believe. Wishful thinking.
Really? honestly, I didnt follow his campaign closely enough because I assumed hillary was going to be in. and I also assumed by what everyone said that he said he was going to end the war quickly etc....should bhave payed closer attention
09-05-2009 , 12:30 PM
Hilariously, I did a project a year ago and found that half the people that voted for McCain in one primary did so because they thought he was anti-war. Because he was a veteran, they were like "lol he doesn't support war obv!"
09-05-2009 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taso
I don't think Obama said he was going to do that, that's just what all the Obamatrons (lmao, yesss!) wanted to believe. Wishful thinking.
Are you really making an argument that takes 1 google search to disprove?

McCain, who argued that a favorable outcome in Iraq is vital for American strategy in the Middle East and its overall efforts against terrorists, repeatedly invoked Petraeus's counterinsurgency strategy and would be inclined to give him considerable latitude in setting force levels in Iraq.

At the heart of the dispute is Obama's 16-month schedule for withdrawing American combat brigades, a timetable that is about twice as fast as that provided for in a draft American and Iraqi accord.


Obama might be slower than expected on withdrawing from Iraq, doesn't mean he's not aiming to withdraw.
09-05-2009 , 12:37 PM

withdrawing from iraq....and never leaving Afghanistan...apples oranges imo...Im also betting we arent out of iraq during his term, unless he is re-elected
Obama vs W - the frenzy
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