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From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago

01-09-2013 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
See, CC, here's someone being honest. I can respect this sort of post a lot more than (eg) this piece in the Atlantic wire

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...weapons/60728/

They list the .50 cal as one of the most "bannable" gun, and their rationale has nothing to do with it's use in criminal activity, but mostly because, well, actually they don't list any specific reason, but some guy shot an iphone with it.
What is the point of owning a .50 cal? Besides having fun and assassinating people I can imagine why someone wants to own one of those.
01-09-2013 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
Ever use one for target practice our just shooting in your back yard or riffle range? Some people just like to shoot guns as a hobby after all, they do have that right.
Shooting practice fundamentally means practicing to kill.
How many Olympic sports are using assault rifles? They all use bolt action or single shot weapons, modern pentathlon uses laser pistols.

2nd amendment is not accurate enough and has a few loopholes:
It says "well regulated Militia"
It doesn't describe what kind of weapons are allowed - it was written in age of muzzle loaded rifles, but under current courts interpretation if some one will go to court saying that he has a right to bear rocket launcher/machine gun, he shall win.
It was authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, and lets see what he had to say about the constitution.
Quote:
Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.
01-09-2013 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
So when society decides that poker is more harmful than beneficial, your response is __________?
that the harm is suffered by people who voluntarily participate. There are no innocent bystander casualties in poker, neither can I take a table and chips and cards to the mall and take money from dozens of people in seconds while they scream and run in panic.
01-09-2013 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinner3
Shooting practice fundamentally means practicing to kill.
How many Olympic sports are using assault rifles? They all use bolt action or single shot weapons, modern pentathlon uses laser pistols.

2nd amendment is not accurate enough and has a few loopholes:
It says "well regulated Militia"
It doesn't describe what kind of weapons are allowed - it was written in age of muzzle loaded rifles, but under current courts interpretation if some one will go to court saying that he has a right to bear rocket launcher/machine gun, he shall win.
It was authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, and lets see what he had to say about the constitution.
No shooting practice means shooting at targets so that in the event you need to use it for protection you don't have to think when operating it.

Can you tell me what is an assault weapon?
01-09-2013 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
that the harm is suffered by people who voluntarily participate. There are no innocent bystander casualties in poker, neither can I take a table and chips and cards to the mall and take money from dozens of people in seconds while they scream and run in panic.
Of course there are innocent bystander casualties in poker. When you click your mouse and lose your house your kids are the innocent victims who didn't voluntarily participate.
01-09-2013 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
No shooting practice means shooting at targets so that in the event you need to kill with it for protection you don't have to think when operating it.

Can you tell me what is an assault weapon?
01-09-2013 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
What is the point of owning a .50 cal?
I dunno.

Is the purpose of gun control IYO to get rid of things you don't understand? Or is it to reduce crime?
01-09-2013 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
Of course there are innocent bystander casualties in poker. When you click your mouse and lose your house your kids are the innocent victims who didn't voluntarily participate.
And yet we let people with kids join the military or work other dangerous jobs, or make other unwise decisions with their money or child care. Your argument is bad and you know it.
01-09-2013 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
I dunno.

Is the purpose of gun control IYO to get rid of things you don't understand? Or is it to reduce crime?
CC knows the point of owning a .50 cal. If you don't, that's your problem.
01-09-2013 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
And yet we let people with kids join the military or work other dangerous jobs, or make other unwise decisions with their money or child care. Your argument is bad and you know it.
But I'm not arguing that people with kids should be prohibited from doing dumb things. Of course such an argument would be bad, that's the entire point.
01-09-2013 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
CC knows the point of owning a .50 cal. If you don't, that's your problem.
I'm not the one asking.
01-09-2013 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
I dunno.

Is the purpose of gun control IYO to get rid of things you don't understand? Or is it to reduce crime?
Yes, you do know.

I do understand.

The point of gun control is to reduce gun violence.
01-09-2013 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
The point of gun control is to reduce gun violence.
ok, if .50 cals are banned how much will "gun violence" decrease IYO?
01-09-2013 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Yes, you do know.
Of course I know, the point is that whatever it is doesn't actually matter in any respect to the points I am making.
01-09-2013 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Yes, you do know.

I do understand.

The point of gun control is to reduce gun violence.
So you want to ban a gun that is never really used to murder people because you think it's pointless? Banning a .50 cal rifle has nothing to do with reducing gun violence.
01-09-2013 , 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
How do we prevent criminals from getting them?

Of the 90+% caused by handguns how many are gang banger killing other gang bangers?

If they are using it for illegal purposes, why do I lose my right to own one?
I laughed almost as much when I read this as when Alex Jones said it.
01-09-2013 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Yes, you do know.

I do understand.

The point of gun control is to reduce gun violence.
If that was the point why is Chicago so violent? Do they not have some of the most restrictive gun laws? How does Washing DC measure up as well?
01-09-2013 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
So when society decides that poker is more harmful than beneficial, your response is __________?
I try to convince society it is wrong, but if its banned I stop playing.
01-09-2013 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
ok, if .50 cals are banned how much will "gun violence" decrease IYO?
Very little. It's not very important in an of itself. But any reasonable gun legislation will cover it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
Of course I know, the point is that whatever it is doesn't actually matter in any respect to the points I am making.
Oh, it's horrible trying to have a discussion with you sometimes, you know that, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendricks433
So you want to ban a gun that is never really used to murder people because you think it's pointless? Banning a .50 cal rifle has nothing to do with reducing gun violence.
Right, but any gun ban that I want will include a .50 cal. I'm not going to shed crocodile tears for the people who want to own a .50 cal weapon and cannot because of we decide to have reasonable gun legislation in this country.
01-09-2013 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
No shooting practice means shooting at targets so that in the event you need to use it for protection you don't have to think when operating it.

Can you tell me what is an assault weapon?
When you intentionally shoot someone with a lethal weapon it still means killing, even if you interpritate it as self defense.
Term assault weapon is pretty much open for various interpretations with varying requirements, but in all of them the core is ability to use detachable magazines.
01-09-2013 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
If that was the point why is Chicago so violent?
That's a massive question. Short answer is something about the social issues and poverty.

Quote:
Do they not have some of the most restrictive gun laws? How does Washing DC measure up as well?
Yes, but a city cannot effectively control the amount of guns in their city when the rest of the country could not care less about stopping gun violence. It's just functionally impossible. It has to be a national policy imo.
01-09-2013 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Very little. It's not very important in an of itself. But any reasonable gun legislation will cover it.



Oh, it's horrible trying to have a discussion with you sometimes, you know that, right?



Right, but any gun ban that I want will include a .50 cal. I'm not going to shed crocodile tears for the people who want to own a .50 cal weapon and cannot because of we decide to have reasonable gun legislation in this country.
So people that want an in-line muzzle loader to hunt deer or elk with can't own one because you feel threatened?
01-09-2013 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Very little. It's not very important in an of itself. But any reasonable gun legislation will cover it.



Oh, it's horrible trying to have a discussion with you sometimes, you know that, right?



Right, but any gun ban that I want will include a .50 cal. I'm not going to shed crocodile tears for the people who want to own a .50 cal weapon and cannot because of we decide to have reasonable gun legislation in this country.
There's a huge disconnect here. I mean I get that the easiest tactic is to just paint everyone who opposes what you want as "unreasonable" but if we take you at your word and assume your goal is to reduce gun violence, then why would any "reasonable" legislation towards that goal include banning things that have zero impact on gun violence?
01-09-2013 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
ok, if .50 cals are banned how much will "gun violence" decrease IYO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Very little.
curious - what's the actual number we should expect for the decrease?
01-09-2013 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
Very little. It's not very important in an of itself. But any reasonable gun legislation will cover it.



Oh, it's horrible trying to have a discussion with you sometimes, you know that, right?



Right, but any gun ban that I want will include a .50 cal. I'm not going to shed crocodile tears for the people who want to own a .50 cal weapon and cannot because of we decide to have reasonable gun legislation in this country.
This seems more like a spiteful desire to ban guns rather than a genuine desire to reduce gun violence.

Is it equally important to limit violent crime or strictly gun violence?

      
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