Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendricks433
I didn't say crime is low because of a "gun in every household". There are a lot of guns available(yes, less than the US) but crime is still low. You listed a lot of reasons it is low while briefly mentioning guns not being carried by everyone(most crimes here in the US due to guns are not law abiding CPL holders carrying but criminals that will have a gun anyway). Seems that those other factors play much more of a role than guns.
Killing your wife or yourself is a pretty determined and passionate thing that people have been doing forever. Getting rid of guns doesnt stop that.
My main point is for a ban to be "effective" it would need to be a complete ban where we confiscate every gun in the US so there are none. Which a) would cost a ton of money we dont have b) cost lives from the fight back from dem rednecks and other americans c) be completely unconstitutional and against the 2nd Amendment d) leaves Americans defenseless against criminals e) lots of crime for 5, 10, 20 year by firearm while no good guys have guns until you confiscate the guns from criminals after crimes. Then we are left defenseless against the government, criminals, other countries.
The guns aren't as available in the US. As I said, they are mostly taken apart and they come without ammunition. And yes, I agree, the other factors play a much bigger role than the guns per se. But that doesn't mean that guns do not have an influence.
"Has been going on forever, will go on forever" is simply not an argument. First of all, a gun is a force multiplier. It's a tough thing to kill 25 children with a knife, it's a lot easier with a gun. I can walk into a room with 5 big guys and shoot them all, quite a different story if I only have a knife or a baseball bat.
Taking away the instrument of a crime can be successful. For example, I think it was during the 80ies, they changed the gas pipes in England so they could no longer be used for suicide. Just found the study, here's the abstract:
"Between 1963 and 1975 the annual number of suicides in England and Wales showed a sudden, unexpected decline from 5,714 to 3,693 at a time when suicide continued to increase in most other European countries. This appears to be the result of the progressive removal of carbon monoxide from the public gas supply. Accounting for more than 40 percent of suicides in 1963, suicide by domestic gas was all but eliminated by 1975. Few of those prevented from using gas appear to have found some other way of killing themselves. These findings suggest that suicide is an intentional act designed to bring an end to deep, though sometimes transient, despair, chosen when moral restraints against the behavior are weakened and when the person has ready access to a means of death that is neither too difficult nor repugnant. This view of suicide has implications for its prevention and, by analogy, for the prevention of crime. That blocking opportunities, even for deeply motivated acts, does not inevitably result in displacement has not been so clearly shown before, and the demonstration considerably strengthens the case for opportunity-reducing or "situational" means of crime control. "
So you see, making guns less available could lead to less crime and fewer deaths. People that wanted to kill themselves (a pretty strong urge, I guess) did so in fewer numbers because their gas system at home was changed. Imagine what it would do if Johnny's gun wasn't available for him to shoot his mother.