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How is "You Lie" racist? Is Jimmy Carter losing it? How is "You Lie" racist? Is Jimmy Carter losing it?

09-17-2009 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
To be fair, they didn't call him a liar or fascist, but speech interruptions aren't anything new, to be sure. If everyone's doing it, it must not be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqSX..._embedded#t=51
That video is full of awesome.
09-17-2009 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
Zero posts itt proving JC right.
FYP
09-17-2009 , 11:28 AM
Since EliotR seems to think Double Eagle's quotation post was somehow profound, this was necessary.

From the first race-related article I found on dailykos. (note that Michael Steele, head of the GOP, is black)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9...-Man-Race-Card

"From a black man's perspective, "

"Clarence Thomas. His only qualification for Supreme Court Justice was that he was black. At least he knows enough to keep his mouth shut"

"Not only was he appointed because he was black, but his utter lack of qualification"

Strange, but from his track record I'd say Clarence Thomas it the ONLY person on the Supreme Court qualified to be there.

"While Stepn' Fetch may have made a buck off of Hollywood, his characters did nothing but advance the prevailing notion of "Negroes" as stupid and capricious. It is this same ingrained notion that fuels the vitriol at our President today and that sentiment was confirmed by former President Carter yesterday."

"Michael Steele really IS a sell-out"

"There is no way in Bosh Limbaugh's GOP that the likes of Michael Steele have any real say in the comings and goings of the party."

"I wasn't very happy with the Democratic Party pitting a white woman against a black man in this last primary. If they didn't know what was going to happen, they are incompetent. If they did know what was going to happen, they're *******s. Either way, I refused to vote for them this last time around. At least the Greens were smart enough to nominate both demographics in one person."

"Steele is a House Slave par excellence."

"Steele's job is to be the black conservative Obama "

"I just want to know if he's smart enough to know what they really think of him. If he does know, then he makes my lip curl.
If he doesn't, then I feel a little sorry for him. He must be bewildered..surely he senses he's not allowed to play in any reindeer games."

Well, I'm only about a fifth of the way through the comments, but I've proved my point and don't really need to go all the way through.
09-17-2009 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Assuming those people are actual "conservative" posters and not "liberal" trolls. It's probably some of each. And let's ignore the fact that there's no evidence that any of those people is involved with anything other than those responses.

No one is saying there are no racists involved. There are racists involved in pretty much everything that goes on, because most people are at least a little bit racist. The point really is whether race is a driving factor in the tea parties, and the post you are referring to provides ZERO evidence of that.

Furthermore, put a bunch of liberal responses responding to some liberal blog about racial issues and the posts are even more racist. There's a good reason for this. People who display the kind of racism that Republicans are "known for" get called out on it and belittled all the time. People who display the kind of racism that Democrats are "known for" get praised and rewarded for their behavior. Because of this, liberal racism is flourishing and expanding.
Dude, never mind the commenters. DE's posts show that right-wing opinion leaders like Limbaugh and Malkin are involved in stirring up this racist bull****. That's pretty much all we need to know imo since we already know that the number one goal of people like Limbaugh is to get ratings and he does that by telling his people what they want to hear. He believes that his people want to hear this crap, and I have no reason to doubt his ability to judge his audience. If you want to point to "liberal racism", fine, no problem, I'll condemn that too. But as to the question of whether the right wing in this country is using racist appeals to enflame opposition to Obama we are pretty much done.
09-17-2009 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Since EliotR seems to think Double Eagle's quotation post was somehow profound, this was necessary.

From the first race-related article I found on dailykos. (note that Michael Steele, head of the GOP, is black)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9...-Man-Race-Card

"From a black man's perspective, "

"Clarence Thomas. His only qualification for Supreme Court Justice was that he was black. At least he knows enough to keep his mouth shut"

"Not only was he appointed because he was black, but his utter lack of qualification"

Strange, but from his track record I'd say Clarence Thomas it the ONLY person on the Supreme Court qualified to be there.

"While Stepn' Fetch may have made a buck off of Hollywood, his characters did nothing but advance the prevailing notion of "Negroes" as stupid and capricious. It is this same ingrained notion that fuels the vitriol at our President today and that sentiment was confirmed by former President Carter yesterday."

"Michael Steele really IS a sell-out"

"There is no way in Bosh Limbaugh's GOP that the likes of Michael Steele have any real say in the comings and goings of the party."

"I wasn't very happy with the Democratic Party pitting a white woman against a black man in this last primary. If they didn't know what was going to happen, they are incompetent. If they did know what was going to happen, they're *******s. Either way, I refused to vote for them this last time around. At least the Greens were smart enough to nominate both demographics in one person."

"Steele is a House Slave par excellence."

"Steele's job is to be the black conservative Obama "

"I just want to know if he's smart enough to know what they really think of him. If he does know, then he makes my lip curl.
If he doesn't, then I feel a little sorry for him. He must be bewildered..surely he senses he's not allowed to play in any reindeer games."

Well, I'm only about a fifth of the way through the comments, but I've proved my point and don't really need to go all the way through.
Fine, much if not all of this is reprehensible. Unlike you, I am not going to try to defend it by pretending that it is all the work of "conservative trolls" or some other ridiculousness. The existence of this does not change the truth of the proposition that the right wing is using racist appeals to enflame opposition to Obama.
09-17-2009 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
Fine, much if not all of this is reprehensible. Unlike you, I am not going to try to defend it by pretending that it is all the work of "conservative trolls" or some other ridiculousness. The existence of this does not change the truth of the proposition that the right wing is using racist appeals to enflame opposition to Obama.
And this doesn't change the truth that the left wing is using race to deflect legitimate and correct criticism of Obama.
09-17-2009 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by owsley
And this doesn't change the truth that the left wing is using race to deflect legitimate and correct criticism of Obama.
Maybe so, but if there weren't abundant proof of right-wing race baiting then this wouldn't be nearly so effective.
09-17-2009 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
DE's posts show that right-wing opinion leaders like Limbaugh and Malkin are involved in stirring up this racist bull****.
Of course. The right can't do it with their politicians directly like the left does, so someone has to do it. And none of them actually mean a word they're saying. It's all about preying on the stupidity of the masses on both sides.

Quote:
Unlike you, I am not going to try to defend it by pretending that it is all the work of "conservative trolls" or some other ridiculousness.
I wasn't trying to say that a significant number of those posts were "liberal trolls". I was trying to make a point about relying on anonymous feedback on the Internet as evidence of anything.
09-17-2009 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
The existence of this does not change the truth of the proposition that the right wing is using racist appeals to enflame opposition to Obama.
Pointing out the racial motives and policies of Obama and those surrounding him is not stirring up anything, it is merely commenting on the racism being displayed by liberals, the administration and their supporters. If anybody is enflaming anything, it is those who are painting all opposition to Obama as racist.
09-17-2009 , 12:18 PM
This just in: The argument that the current level of vitriol (of which Congressman Wilson's outburst is one example) is being driven by racism/xenophobia which is being whipped up by conservative thought leaders =/= an argument that all opposition to Obama is racist. Can you put away that strawman for good please?
09-17-2009 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Da Donks
Pointing out the racial motives and policies of Obama and those surrounding him is not stirring up anything, it is merely commenting on the racism being displayed by liberals, the administration and their supporters. If anybody is enflaming anything, it is those who are painting all opposition to Obama as racist.
Wyntonbeersquirrelpic.jpg
09-17-2009 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
And none of them actually mean a word they're saying. It's all about preying on the stupidity of the masses on both sides.
nit: they might actually believe what they're saying, but (rock.jpg) it doesn't matter because as you say they're just preying on stupidity.
09-17-2009 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoinGuy
Senator Leahy told everyone who would listen that Vice President Chaney was a war profiteer who was responsible for the deaths of many young American men and women. ( Did so in his own office but it is far more offensive than "you lie.")
Insulting the vice president from the confines of your office does not equal violating the rules of the House, which is what Wilson was censured for. Nice strawman.
09-17-2009 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guids
I dont view it as internal inconsistency, because Im not allowed to just not think about race, its forced upon me, if I was allowed to not think about it by the KKK/white guilters, I wouldnt be racist. IMO, it just boils down to the fact that it is way easier for most sane people to dismiss Rushs' etc race baiting, because it is blatant, and any non-douche just ignores it, whats more insidious is the white guilters because no one dismisses it, and its actually encouraged by a lot of people
Lol, you really think that 95% of teabaggers think Rush is a douche for that statement?
09-17-2009 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Lol, you really think that 95% of teabaggers think Rush is a douche for that statement?
Dunno, I never met a "tea bagger", I think that whole thing is a waste of time just like all political dissent in this country, so Ive never been to an event. 90% of people in this forum/in general are wasting breath (me included) by even arguing/thinking about politics. **** is never going to change, the only thing you can do to enact change is prepare yourself to be self-sufficient, and stay out of the system as much as possible, if enough people would actually do that we might see a revolution of power back to the citizens, but until you guys start doing this, **** it, Im not going to any protest.
09-17-2009 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondogarage
Insulting the vice president from the confines of your office does not equal violating the rules of the House, which is what Wilson was censured for. Nice strawman.
No, not an exact fit. Nothing would be an exact fit.

You need to find out what strawman means.

Last edited by CoinGuy; 09-17-2009 at 12:57 PM.
09-17-2009 , 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondogarage
Insulting the vice president from the confines of your office does not equal violating the rules of the House, which is what Wilson was censured for. Nice strawman.
Wilson broke the rules, sure. And what he did was also rude and out of line, and he did apologize later. However, it isn't racist, which was what this thread was about.
09-17-2009 , 12:57 PM
Well, what Carter actually said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Carter
“I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man,”
And while I'm pretty sure he'd get some infraction points for that if he said that here, it's also true. Notice(AND THIS IS IMPORTANT), Carter is NOT TALKING ABOUT DISAGREEING WITH OBAMA. Mere disagreement with Obama can be caused by any number of factors.

He's talking about the animosity: the birther stuff, the Muslim stuff, the praying for his death stuff.
09-17-2009 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf

He's talking about the "intensely demonstrated" animosity: the birther stuff, the Muslim stuff, the praying for his death stuff.
fyp
09-17-2009 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Da Donks
Wilson broke the rules, sure. And what he did was also rude and out of line, and he did apologize later. However, it isn't racist, which was what this thread was about.
He apologized to Obama for the insult; he never did apologize to the House for breaking their rules. Had he even taken 10 seconds out of his Monday minute to do so, there would have been no censure.

So what are your thoughts on Wilson having said that Thurmond's illegitimate daughter should have never come out and identified herself as his daughter, because doing so was "shameful"?

Surely there's nothing racist in Wilson telling a black woman that going public with her parentage by a white segregationist was a shameful act, no?
09-17-2009 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf

He's talking about the animosity: the birther stuff, the Muslim stuff, the praying for his death stuff.
And since there was a great deal of animosity towards Bush, it can't be said that the animosity towards Obama is racist, besides those few people who actually are making racist signs and/or statements.

Wishing for Obama's death is probably not the right thing to do, but it's not necessarily racial. Plenty of people wanted to see Bush dead and wished for his death. Hating Obama is not racial, there's plenty of reasons for people to hate him besides his skin color.
09-17-2009 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondogarage
He apologized to Obama for the insult; he never did apologize to the House for breaking their rules. Had he even taken 10 seconds out of his Monday minute to do so, there would have been no censure.

So what are your thoughts on Wilson having said that Thurmond's illegitimate daughter should have never come out and identified herself as his daughter, because doing so was "shameful"?

Surely there's nothing racist in Wilson telling a black woman that going public with her parentage by a white segregationist was a shameful act, no?
I'm not making any excuses for Wilson for anything that he's done or said in the past, I'd never even heard of the guy before he shouted "you lie".
09-17-2009 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Da Donks
And since there was a great deal of animosity towards Bush, it can't be said that the animosity towards Obama is racist, besides those few people who actually are making racist signs and/or statements.

Wishing for Obama's death is probably not the right thing to do, but it's not necessarily racial. Plenty of people wanted to see Bush dead and wished for his death. Hating Obama is not racial, there's plenty of reasons for people to hate him besides his skin color.
You can't play the game where we pretend all animosity is equal. Pacifists freaking out over Iraq(p.s. they were right lol, not that it ever seems to matter) is not the same as otherwise normal people believing that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. The peace stuff was because of something Bush DID, the birther stuff is something about WHO OBAMA IS.

I guess this might just be a "strictness of language" and "how subsets works" thing, and that's been hashed out in this thread already.
09-17-2009 , 01:26 PM
And the truther stuff was about:

[ ] Something Bush did
[ ] Who Bush is
[ ] Irrational hatred of Bush
09-17-2009 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
You can't play the game where we pretend all animosity is equal. Pacifists freaking out over Iraq(p.s. they were right lol, not that it ever seems to matter) is not the same as otherwise normal people believing that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. The peace stuff was because of something Bush DID, the birther stuff is something about WHO OBAMA IS.

I guess this might just be a "strictness of language" and "how subsets works" thing, and that's been hashed out in this thread already.
I can certainly compare the two. You believe it isn't equal because you happen to agree with the "pacifists". I didn't have a problem with going into Iraq, as it was the natural and common sense thing to do. Opinions differ.

I'm not a birther and the criticism against Obama is not just from birthers, it is from people who strongly oppose Obama's policies.

      
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