In Baltimore, yes they do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/29/op...ddie-gray.html

I agree. If a white person resists they a much lesser chance of getting really injured compared to a black person. I've said so myself.

So where are you extrapolating this idea that I think "they were asking for it"? I've never said that, not once.

We have plenty of terrible people on this planet. I'm not one of them. If anything, your last post says a lot about you.

Wil, this is you stating in no uncertain terms that the black people were asking for it.

No, it's not. You are taking it to mean it that way, but that's not what I said. I said they are complicit (at least somewhat) in their own deaths. I'm critical of people who make bad choices when dealing with police officers.

It's really not that difficult to just comply. If a cop tells me to stfu or he'll beat me with his baton, I'm going to stfu. I might very well do something after the entire encounter is over, but I'm not putting myself in a position to argue or escalate the situation.

If a cop is reaching for my hands to cuff me, I let him. What do you do Wookie? Do you pull away and start running?

Doubt you'd be so eager to comply if police officers were trying to arrest you for petty **** every day.

So are you condoning behavior of not complying? We've all dealt with police harassment before, have we all not?

How do you react when police are harassing you?

If it makes you feel better to tell yourself this nonsense, go ahead. I'm far from miserable, and I'm far from a racist. I realize how the world works. It's not fair, and I didn't make the rules, but I DO realize what works and what doesn't.

You judging me is laughable. You know nothing about me other than some thoughts I've posted on an internet forum. How you could possibly think you know what type of person I am is stupid at best. You sound like a complete fool. In fact, you sound like Fly.

Yeah, that's literally saying that the black people are asking for it. That's what "asking for it" means. When people say that a rape victim was "asking for it," that's an assertion that she was complicit in her rape because she made the horrible hamartia to go out of doors in suggestive clothing that put herself in a situation or that escalated a situation to the point that she would be raped. What you attribute to "bad choices" that result in deadly, but expected, consequences given the choices that were made is no less ridiculous than the sorts of "bad choices" ascribed to rape victims.

You also seem to be mistaking that white people can consistently make the mistakes you allege are commonplace amongst the black people who wind up beaten or killed without getting beaten or killed. You also seem to ignore that black people can get beaten or killed without making any sort of mistake that should wind up with them getting beaten or killed. As we've seen over and over again, compliance is not enough, because black people get killed before having an opportunity to comply, while they are complying, or even after they have complied and are already in custody.

you can take that as far as you want. anyone who breaks the law and is executed by a cop is complicit in their death, at least somewhat, because they shouldn't have broken the law, right? all we're doing is drawing a line in the sand for what we consider reasonable and unreasonable responses to behavior. it's unreasonable for a cop to just execute someone who is obeying their orders. most people think it's also unreasonable for a cop to overtly kill someone who is nonviolently resisting arrest, or doing a variety of other things that don't involve threatening the cops life or safety.

What's the point though wil?

If Black people never hold a toy gun, never have a broken tail light, and always instantly comply with authority, there will be fewer Black people killed by the police, but that's not good enough.

If you need the crowd at 2p2 to admit Eric Garner could have just either not sold cigarettes or complied without an argument, you're not going to force that and why do you want it?

He's dead. He more than paid for his pretty crimes. The cops who didn't have any reason to lay hands on him, let alone use a dangerous and disallowed choke hold should be held responsible for needlessly killing him.

No. These two aren't the same at all. A woman who is wearing suggestive clothing doesn't give a man the permission to have a sexual encounter with her. A police officer asking you to comply or who is in the process of arresting you doesn't need permission. He's doing it. You can argue the point afterwards, but if he wants to arrest you he's arresting you. There is no permission needed. Rape is when no permission is granted. An arrest doesn't require permission.

The difference between the two is blatantly obvious.

There are many instances of white people getting their asses beat and shot and killed by police officers too. Once again, I agree that black people have it worse in these categories, but I don't agree that they don't have opportunities to comply. Has there been instances where that is true? Yes. Is that commonplace? Absolutely not.

dude, you're the one who posted a picture of your child. your child looked sad and depressed. it's really not my fault.

Good point. In some of these instances I share the feelings of the general public. In others I don't. The Garner, Martin, and Tamir Rice cases I can understand what happened. The Brown case is a bit fuzzy because we just don't know what happened (I'm leaning towards Brown's side), and the SC shooting and the Baltimore case seem particularly egregious. The SC shooting was the worst one in my book.


I think it would help. I think that people need to understand that police are dangerous. When an officer confronts you in any type of aggressive encounter, your life is in danger at least a little. People should react accordingly. Protect yourself and just do what they ask you to do. I don't see what's so controversial about having that attitude. Plenty of people react the other way, and usually bad things happen. There should be as little of that happening as possible.

I personally didn't care he was selling cigarettes. I wouldn't care if he was selling bricks of coke.

My entire point in that thread was he actively resisted arrest and his death was accidental. The end result was terrible, no one has ever said he deserved to die, but I can understand how it happened.

This idea that Garner can pull away from the officer trying to arrest him and the officers should just throw their hands up and say "well, he doesn't want to be arrested, let's just leave him alone" just doesn't make sense. The officers have a job to do. They are put into that situation without any choice. I'm sure none of them feels like wrestling down a 6'5 350 lb man, but they did, because they did what they were trained to do.

(a) I've lived a pretty sheltered life and (b) as a petite white female I am probably least likely to get harassed by the police, but I've honestly never experienced anything that I would consider harassment.

In fact, the only interractions I personally remember having with the police were:

1) Calling 911 when I noticed that the display on the front of a city bus that usually displays route information had changed to a message stating, "Emergency - Call police". The dispatcher was very polite, asked me a few questions about the location and direction of the bus, and thanked me for calling.

2) A police officer breaking up a fist fight between a drunk friend (6ft2 white marine) and another big guy, without much force and without arresting either of the guys.

3) Getting pulled over a couple miles outside of an all day music festival for driving without my headlights on. When I explained that I thought the lights were on, but must have made a mistake b/c it was a rental car and I wasn't real familiar with the panels, the officer showed me how to turn the lights on, and let me go without a ticket, or a field sobriety test (which, frankly, I would have thought would have been SOP in that spot).

Given this history, I still have a natural inclination to view cops as good and decent protectors. But, because I pay attention to the rest of the world and try to listen both to the stories of other people, and to the statistics gathered by people who study these things, I'm pretty confident that some of these situations would have played out a lot differently if I were a black man.

You should re-read your last few posts and rethink that whole childish thing. You seem to want some sort of back-clapping acceptance by the others in this forum. Maybe you should work on your feelings of self-worth and confidence and stop trying to make others like you by imitating their behavior. Grown people tend to not do that.

That's an interesting screen name for a petite white female, so I'm glad you pointed that out because I'd never guess.

Your experiences have been generally positive. That's good. Mine have been mixed, and I think most of that comes from me simply being a male.

My point was that while being harassed by a police officer, you can either lash out and risk the consequences, or do what they ask. I've been harassed. I'm sure others here have been harassed, or questioned, or told to do things when they were simply minding their own business. The typical and normal response is to just defuse the situation, comply and move on.

This idea that being harassed more than others grants you the permission to behave however you want just doesn't fly with me.

You have no clue what is going on here. Police make illegal arrests and searches all the time and when people complain, nothing changes. In this case we have police:

1) lying on the police report
2) leaking inaccurate eyewitness testimony that makes the arresting officers look better

and this is in a case where there is clear video contradicting the police report AND an eyewitness who discredits the police investigative report. There is no accountability. You think that it's okay for a black person to get the **** kicked out of them for pulling their hands away from handcuffs, but you completely ignore that the cops in these cases have no accountability at all.

Until now, that is.

The only evidence you have that noncompliance among blacks is a common factor in the beatings and deaths is your imagination and the testimony of cops who we know to lie regularly.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/02/nypd-co...ead-in-queens/

This probably isn't going to help things.


What a scumbag.

But it's not about how garner, brown etc are heroes. They are imperfect. There will always be imperfect people. Even imperfect people need to be treated reasonably by the police.

Police officers are granted a certain level of trust when it comes to filling out these reports. I agree that sometimes they are falsified, in fact, I'm know so. What does this mean? That all reports are false? Or that in this particular case we know the reports were false and we can treat the incident as it is : a murder by the hands of the officer.

What point are you making that we disagree on?

We actually had video of the Garner case. We went through it ad naseum. Your notion that that cops indeed to lie on reports and that must be a regular occurrence I just don't agree with. Is it possible? Sure. Do you know for certain they lie regularly? I don't think so.

There's a reason why cops are paranoid. They actually do get shot at sometimes.

Last time I was in court the cop lied on a traffic ticket. It wasn't even a material fact and I was intending to admit guilt. It was a minor fabrication designed to discredit me.

I think they have a whole system of prefabricated routine lies that they know work.

It's not a notion. Once again your imagination is getting in the way of truth.