You are arguing police officers are human beings and make decisions based on their perception of right and wrong, and when they engage in "misconduct" (as you are describing) it is not always racism against a minority?

I dont see how that contradicts anything I said.

You said that black people were killed more because they commit more violent crimes. If that is true, we would expect geographic areas with more violent crimes to have more police killings. That isn't true, so it actually looks more like police kill black people more because those people are black.

What about the three things you mentioned needs to change. What are some policies that would fix the problems. Be specific

No, this is what we call intellectual dishonesty.

I would expect areas where blacks committed a disproportionate % of the violent crimes to have a disproportionate % of police encounters with negative outcomes, including death.

Also, when talking about police shootings (and police being shot) we are talking about some real small (relative) numbers. I am sure if you just cherry picked specific cities the data set would be way too small to come to any conclusive data.

however, when you start compiling national statistics over years (which is the data I presented) you might start coming up with some statistically significant data.

Being in the industry you are in I am sure you know all this. For all we know, geographic areas with more crime do have more police killings, but it is not statistically significant, so the authors of the papers can get away with saying they dont.

That is how the game is played.

What? No. If violent crime rate is the more important statistic than blackness for determining when police shoot people, we should not have to cherry pick places where black people are committing most of the violent crimes. Otherwise you are conceding that blackness is the more important variable.

For the record, I would expect cities with more violent crimes to also have more police killings. I would love to see some of that raw data arguing no correlation.

It's in the article you quoted. Already. We already told you about it. You know the results!

Not everyone and rememebr they dont mean racist when they say 'racist'

We have to demand a higher standard from police. A well function society depends on communities being able to trust and rely on their police. Doesn't mean we should exclusively focus on the police but they should get a great deal of attention.

Our ability to understand what is going on helps us tackle it, it doens't mean we shouldn't tackle it.

Yeah, I would not be surprised that being a young black male has the strongest correlation coefficient for being shot by police.

I also strongly suspect it is probably also the strongest correlation coefficient for committing violent crimes. Do you have data disputing this conjecture?

I dont think we are honestly trying to discuss or fix anything here. If we were copy-pasting actual statistics wouldn't be grounds for calling someone a racist.

I think this forum is actually a pretty good microcosm of what is going on in this country, where it is just tyranny of the PC majority. And if you dont agree you are just called a racist and dismissed.

And that is why someone like Trump is almost president. Because (mainly rural, white, religious, etc.) people are tired of just being called racist and dismissed.

And as a few writers have noted recently, white anger is the most valid kind of anger.

Did you just miss this post, or skip over it completely?

Police shoot black people way more than is warranted vs other races - you don't think they arrest them way more?

The whole "black people commit more crime because of LOOK AT THE STATISTICS THEYRE SUCH A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF THE JAIL POPULATION!!!" type of rhetoric is just incredibly tired at this point and to not realize the inherent flaw with it means you are willfully ignoring just hundreds upon hundreds of official reports and/or news articles.

Like this gives us a great opportunity for a Ferguson callback:

That **** is straight out of the DOJ report! You can find why the statistics make it look like black people are criminals more than other races! All you have to do is LOOK instead of going "well yep that number confirms my preconceived notion, let's stop there"

In response to the last post, It is strange how often people here make up arguments they attribute to me and then tell me why what I never said is wrong.

hahaha do you really need it spelled out for you? i mean just quoting the DOJ report should be enough for a competent person to realize how their quoted post was wrong. but here we go!

like half of your post depends on the premise that black people are doing thing X Y or Z more often than some other race. saying they get arrested more therefore they do things more means literally NOTHING when the entire reason they get arrested more is simply because they are black!

which is a concept borne out with statistics like black people get pulled over more often than the census should indicate they do (unless you wanna start going with black people are worse drivers, LOL). and yet, during those traffic stops that do occur, white people are way more likely to have contraband on them! weird.

really, really weird. hmmm. interesting. if anything, statistics seem to indicate that white people have a higher rate of criminal behavior. hmmm. interesting. hmmm.

So you are arguing that men of other races are just as likely to commit rape, murder, robbery and aggravated assault, and black men just get caught more because they are pulled over more?

This is certainly a hot take. Do we all agree with this explanation of disparate violent crime statistics?

What's your suggestion? Black men are genetically predisposed to rape and murder more often?

lol do you really have to ask? YES this is EXACTLY what I am saying.

They get stopped more, they get charged with higher crimes more, their plea offers are not as good so they are more likely to cop to a crime they were charged with, they on the average cannot afford expensive private attorneys... yes yes yes and yes. And that's not even an exhaustive list. But that's the sort of **** that leads to a higher conviction rate.

Nobody cares if you think that take is hot. You are sitting at the kid's table during thanksgiving dinner right now.

No. Combination of broken families, poverty, lack of education, and desperation. And paternalistic liberal white racism plays its part.

You could say much the same thing for poor white people, who are still the majority of poor people, just not as big a % of white people.

I think poor white People have most of the same problems with police as poor black people. We just don't acknowledge it because it doesn't fit the "police are racist killers" narrative that is en vogue right now.

Nope. Objectively incorrect. But hey, QuickBen THINKS it, so that's something!

No, you just think wrong.

Edit: Damn, I'm a slower pony than Ben

Except you cant, because we have concrete objective numbers that show that poor white people DONT get charged at the same rate as black men. This isnt ****ing hard.

A horse that shows still gets money, right?

Are you saying poor white people are not discriminates at all by police, or not as much as blacks. The latter I can believe. The former would shock me.

Again, you guys are putting words in my mouth just so you can dispute them. I didn't say poor white people are discriminated as much as black people. I said I am guessing they had many of the same problems.